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Author Topic: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?  (Read 3922 times)

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AyanaL

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Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« on: February 09, 2007, 09:36:51 PM »

As a son of God I feel that if we cut off those who don't know the truth completely, where will they hear the truth.  Any word on "come yea out from among them and be ye separated".  In particular, I am talking about unsaved family members who think they are saved but because of their fruit, I wouldn't consider them to be so.
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2007, 10:38:54 PM »

Hi.  Ray has a good article on Witnessing.  It is on his site and is very good.  I just try to be kind and keep it on the light side when I am around my relatives.
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2007, 11:35:11 PM »

AyanaL

It is my understanding of what is meant by the instruction: "come yea out from among them and be ye separated". is that we should no longer associate ourselves in thie pagan rituals. Now, I think these rituals are many and varied these days, but are very similar in concept to those of long past.

Perhaps it is the late nights spent drinking and flirting with the guys, or maybe the gambling at the race track. It could also be the books that are read or the TV shows watched, or the friends that one associates with. It's very hard to say that one has come out from among them when one actively participates in such activities.

But, this does not mean that we should look down on them, nor does it mean that we should shut past friends and associates out of our life. Rather, it is often God's plan to have others see the positive change in us, so that they may question their own life style. I would like to add that actions always speak so much louder than words. Especially when dealing with toics as close to the heart as religion. If someone believes that they are saved, then so be it. Neither I or anyone here is God, nor do we know his mind. However, we should know that God works everything according to his plan.

I hope this helps.  :) 

Great question.

Love,
Darren
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Redbird

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2007, 08:01:21 AM »

I used to love my enemies to the point of destruction.  Now, I realize, it is unhealthy for me to be unequally yoked together with such.  I have asked for God to lead me to his people for years.  And while he does this, he also takes out of my life, one by one, things that are not good for me.  This can be very tough too.  But I know he has my best interests at heart and am learning to trust him more and more.  Just my thoughts.  Good question indeed.

Peace, Lisa
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2007, 10:41:22 AM »

1 Cor 5 : 9,10 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators; 10 Not meaning of course that you must altogether shun the immoral people of this world, or the greedy graspers and cheats and thieves or idolaters, since otherwise you would need to get out of the world and human society altogether!

Ray's audo study on love will also assist you to know how to be in the world but not  of the world....or how to be among the wicked but not of the wicked.

Also, no one is yet "saved". Some are being judged now and others will be judged later in the lake of fire. BT Lake of Fire teachings on this site, gives the details.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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M_Oliver

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2007, 11:30:35 AM »

AyanaL,

I second Arcturus's advice re: Rays audio lesson on love.  If you haven't already the link is http://bible-truths.com/audio/love.mp3  I had been wrestling a bit with this topic and actually was making progress in understanding it but I was still a little unsure.  Ray brought it home for me so to speak.

Mark
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2007, 11:51:05 AM »

So if we do not look down on immoral people of this world, greedy graspers, cheats , thieves or idolaters, pretenders, hypocrites, blind guides, fools, serpents and snakes and children of Satan† then we are to acknowledge that it is the mind of Christ that we become acquainted with as we are conformed by His Spirit into His image.

God wants and desires children.† We are being conformed to know His mind, His thoughts, His ways and as Christ is God's mediator God's scriptures are His thoughts. Jesus Christ can reveal God to us. He is the express image of the Father. God is knowable.†

Wisdom is Proverbs 4 : 11 I have taught you in the way of skilful and Godly Wisdom which is comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God; i have led you in the paths of uprightness.

If someone "thinks they are saved.... then so be it" Ö.. I think not. To say nothing is easy and to say something invites persecution often. We are under no obligation to save anyone and we are under no expectation to teach anyone but I do think if someone in this Forum says they are saved or born again or that they believe in the trinity or tithing, we should speak up and point out the direction of study that has set us free from such bondage.

If they have ears to hear and eyes to see is not in our power. One thing I pray not to be, is luke warm to be spat out of the body of Christ by Christ! especially as I now know where to find the truth and it is not only setting me free but others right here and now!
why should I not say anything to direct captivity captive to Christ:

2 Cor 10 : 5 Inasmuch as we refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the true knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ.

There is nothing wrong in that! ;D


Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 11:52:12 AM by Arcturus »
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Redbird

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2007, 02:04:41 PM »

I just listened to Ray's audio on Love this morning, and it was music to my ears. Thank you Ray, and the forum for bringing this issue to light.

Lisa

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PKnowler

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2007, 02:40:49 PM »

Arcturus,

   I understand that no one is saved now, God is saving us. But I don't recall reading anything of Ray's where he refutes being born again. Someone had posted some links of Ray's where he talks about it but I think that thread was deleted.

Can someone give me those links where Ray refutes being born again?

Thanks, Paula

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PKnowler

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2007, 03:29:57 PM »

As a son of God I feel that if we cut off those who don't know the truth completely, where will they hear the truth.  Any word on "come yea out from among them and be ye separated".  In particular, I am talking about unsaved family members who think they are saved but because of their fruit, I wouldn't consider them to be so.

Hi Ayana,

    We can associate and visit with people and not fellowship with them. It's the difference between Agape and phileo love.
I believe that is how Jesus ate with the sinners and tax collectors.

Matt 9:11
    When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

Matt 11:19
    The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners.'" But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

We can go where angels fear to tread (so to speak) because of God's Agape love working in us!
God's Agape love flowing through us is liberating! It allows us to associate with, befriend, and (Agape) everyone without condoning, judging or pardoning the sin of anyone. We can also dislike someone and not associate with them and still Agape them because of  Christ's work on the cross.

This is my understanding of Agape love!

Blessings, Paula  :)

« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 03:36:36 PM by PKnowler »
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2007, 04:07:33 PM »

Arcturus,

† †I understand that no one is saved now, God is saving us. But I don't recall reading anything of Ray's where he refutes being born again. Someone had posted some links of Ray's where he talks about it but I think that thread was deleted.

Can someone give me those links where Ray refutes being born again?

Thanks, Paula



Hi Paula,

Ray touches on this matter of "born again" really being "conceived again" while we are still in this flesh, we are spiritually conceived in the here and now but truly "born again" at the resurrection, when we receive our new (spiritual) bodies, incoruptable & immortal.

Look at the Greek in John Chapter 3;


Joh 3:3† Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born1080 again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

G1080
γεννάω
gennaō
ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

Ray explains that the Greek root word is used for both conception and birth, he does a much better job than I am capable of doing, you can hear it in the September Conference audio, I believe it is the first topic listed.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

P.S. Below is a link to a thread we had going on this topic a while back.



http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1833.0.html


« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 04:11:53 PM by hillsbororiver »
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PKnowler

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2007, 04:43:53 PM »

Thanks for the info and links Joe and Kat!

I will take some time and go through them. For some reason I'm glad to hear that I am not completely born again yet.
I know that I still sin and hope that when I am truly born again I will no longer sin! Being born of the incorruptible seed.

1Peter 1:23
    Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This answers some other questions I have too about sinning.

1 John 5:18
    We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.

I have much to learn!

Blessings, Paula  :)
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2007, 05:04:45 PM »

Hello Paula

To add, here are two more links on this topic.

Enjoy!

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2682.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2619.0.html

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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Nancy

  • Guest
I thought we are not supposed to judge!
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2007, 08:04:52 PM »

Hi there Ayanal and all,

I thought that we were not supposed to judge others.  If they say they believe, then who are we to judge them.  We are surely being perfected, we are not perfect yet.  I used to be very judgmental towards my Jewish in laws, but God helped me to love them as they are and although they don't wear crosses or anything, my mother in law has softened to my view of spiritual things. 
I have a really hard time with St. Pauls' view of not being unequally yoked.  How do we really know who is spiritual and who is a wolf in sheeps' clothing.  You can be spiritual without even knowing it and not spiritual, even when you think you have the monoply on God.  I do not see people as saved and unsaved, otherwise my head would blow and I cannot say to myself 'I'd better not befriend that person in case they are not a believer'!  I can't do that.  I want to just see people as all of Gods' children.
God bless
Nancy
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M_Oliver

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Re: I thought we are not supposed to judge!
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2007, 10:19:27 PM »

Hi there Ayanal and all,

I thought that we were not supposed to judge others.† If they say they believe, then who are we to judge them.† We are surely being perfected, we are not perfect yet.† I used to be very judgmental towards my Jewish in laws, but God helped me to love them as they are and although they don't wear crosses or anything, my mother in law has softened to my view of spiritual things.†
I have a really hard time with St. Pauls' view of not being unequally yoked.† How do we really know who is spiritual and who is a wolf in sheeps' clothing.† You can be spiritual without even knowing it and not spiritual, even when you think you have the monoply on God.† I do not see people as saved and unsaved, otherwise my head would blow and I cannot say to myself 'I'd better not befriend that person in case they are not a believer'!† I can't do that.† I want to just see people as all of Gods' children.
God bless
Nancy

discernment...
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2007, 01:43:55 AM »

Hello Nancy

Not all people are Gods children. All people are God's creation, yes.

There are more details of this in the teaching titled

"You Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!"
Why Jesus Used Scathing Sarcasm


on this site. Also as you read up on Ray's Lake of Fire sereis this distinction may become clearer to you.

Peace to you

Arcturus  :)
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Bev

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2007, 12:29:09 PM »

Hi there Ayanal and all,

Quote
I thought that we were not supposed to judge others.  If they say they believe, then who are we to judge them.  We are surely being perfected, we are not perfect yet.  I used to be very judgmental towards my Jewish in laws, but God helped me to love them as they are and although they don't wear crosses or anything, my mother in law has softened to my view of spiritual things. 
I have a really hard time with St. Pauls' view of not being unequally yoked.  How do we really know who is spiritual and who is a wolf in sheeps' clothing.  You can be spiritual without even knowing it and not spiritual, even when you think you have the monoply on God.  I do not see people as saved and unsaved, otherwise my head would blow and I cannot say to myself 'I'd better not befriend that person in case they are not a believer'!  I can't do that.  I want to just see people as all of Gods' children.
God bless
Nancy

Quote
discernment...


Judgment is discretion, the same you use when moving out of the way out of the street when a speeding car is coming...


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Bev

  • Guest
Re: Should sons of God have any contact with the unsaved?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2007, 03:02:27 PM »

Hello, you said,


Quote
As a son of God I feel that if we cut off those who don't know the truth completely, where will they hear the truth.† Any word on "come yea out from among them and be ye separated".† In particular, I am talking about unsaved family members who think they are saved but because of their fruit, I wouldn't consider them to be so.





Ayana L., Itís all about being in THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Being in the body of Christ allows us to pray together and pray for our immature brothers and sisters. God says in Romans 10:14 - How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? When I use the word preacher,† I am not talking about man elected preachers. I am talking about men or (women) truly called by God (HIS children) who have been baptized by THE SPIRIT into the body of Christ which by the way has nothing to do with speaking in tongues. 1Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit (a spirit has no sex Galatians 3:28)are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.† Who is to say who shall or is saved, but Christ alone?1 Corinthians 1:21 says - For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. I believe that at some point of our lives we all believed that we were saved because someone (mom, dad, preacher, pastor, brother, sister, etc.) told us we were, but until God revealed Himself to us in our time of tribulation, we did not know the magnitude of HIS power. A lot of times we only call on HIM, when we are in trouble. Therefore, we are also like the nation of Israel (read the Judges). It is only through Godís agape LOVE (mercy, grace), that like He was merciful towards them (the nation of Israel), He is also merciful to us.Psalms 67:1 - God be merciful unto us, and bless us; and cause his face to shine upon us; Selah. Luke 18:13-14 - And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner and not like the religious Pharisee who liked to make it seem like he was above everybody else as seen in Luke 18:11-12 - I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. This is the way that we have to be to our immature brothers and sisters because how are we to know whoís saved and who isnít.2 Corinthians 10:7 says - Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? Luke 18:14 says - I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalts him self shall be abased; and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.

IN HIS LOVE,


The bride of Christ† † † † † † † † † †
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