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nightmare sasuke:
Someone wrote an article supposedly refuting Ray:

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/smithlr01.html

I plan on reading his article about Hell and writing a counter argument against it. How would you like that: "refuting those that try to refute but are not - Nightmare Sasuke"

love_magnified:
http://thekingdomcome.com/confronting_universalism_complete_5_part_series?PHPSESSID=633dcdf8f807a073c0318e5c7654cfee

See how many strawmen you can find in this one. My jaw dropped at some of the logic.

hillsbororiver:

--- Quote from: nightmare sasuke ---Someone wrote an article supposedly refuting Ray:

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/smithlr01.html

I plan on reading his article about Hell and writing a counter argument against it. How would you like that: "refuting those that try to refute but are not - Nightmare Sasuke"
--- End quote ---


Hi Nightmare, I read this a few months back and was amazed then at how little scripture this guy used in his "refutation" it had a real "denominational church" feel about it, about as dry and uninspiring as a Jonathon Edwards paper.

Joe

hillsbororiver:

--- Quote from: love_magnified ---http://thekingdomcome.com/confronting_universalism_complete_5_part_series?PHPSESSID=633dcdf8f807a073c0318e5c7654cfee

See how many strawmen you can find in this one. My jaw dropped at some of the logic.
--- End quote ---



LM, so true, here is just one example (I cut and pasted this from "The Kingdom" article).

“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.� – 1 Cor 15:22

The first question that must be asked is HOW… How did people become IN ADAM and how do people become IN CHRIST? It would seem obvious that ALL men are born in Adam via natural birth, but NOT all men are born in Christ.  Does this contradict the text?  Not in the least bit.  The text is NOT saying all who are in Adam will be in Christ, but rather it is contrasting that all that were in Adam were under death, and thus all who are in Christ (which is not everyone) will be made alive.


See how the author changes the order of the scripture to change it's meaning?

The scripture does NOT read "all in Christ" will be made alive.

It reads; IN Christ all will be made alive.

Tricky but transparent.

Again, like Jonathon Edwards, little scripture, much supposition.

Joe

shibboleth:
I was in a Presbyterian church and asked the pastor if Adam and Eve were saved. He said yes they were because God had provided them coverings for their sins. Something about what he said was unsettling to me. I couldn't pinpoint it at the time, but knew there was a key that in what he said that only God could unlock.
After I left the church, one day God showed me that if all people were with Adam when he was clothed in unrighteousness, then all people were in Adam when he was clothed with righteousness. This was the first universalist truths I learned, although at the time I didn't know enough to refute ET.
Over the past year, I have learned more and more about our great and wonderful God. By the way, back in ET days, I didn't think God was so great and wonderful. I was just afraid of Him and what He would do to me if I didn't measure up. Well guess what, I CAN'T MEASURE UP! My yardstick is too short.
I read some of Jonathan Edwards and Charles Spurgeon and now I realize they both didn't understand grace at all, as most preachers don't

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