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Stupid website
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver ---Does that help answer your question marks?
Hello feat,
Not all of them but it is a start, this man from tektonics has taken it upon himself to attempt to demolish Ray's writings with clever sidetracking and supposition, again, "very little scripture" is used to refute Ray, actually I do not remember any from him.
What other questions do you have?
Clever word games are his tool, for instance, can you see a difference between immortality and eternal? The tektonics guy attempts to blend them into one and the same, if you or I were to be given our new spiritual bodies today we would be given "immortality" only God is eternal, without beginning, without end. We (all creation) would always have a beginning.
I am not sure about "always having a healthy skepticism about whatever anyone interprets as the truth" as being a good road to growing in the Lord, through faith obtaining understanding, gaining the fruits of the spirit. Would you apply that to what Paul wrote or understood to be truth? Or any of the men guided by the Spirit who recorded God's Word? Do you have a healthy skepticism that Jesus walked the earth, had an earthly ministry, died for all of our sins and was resurrected?
You never answered this question. I answered this below in blue. I don't accept any man's theories without a healthy skepticism. If you are asking me if I believe in scripture then that is a whole other matter. But we are not talking about scripture here. We are talking about what men say and how they interpret scripture. At least I thought that was what this thread was all about
I certainly would agree that we should "be as the Bereans" and check the witnesses, verify the scripture's quoted or referenced to make sure we are not being deceived or believing falsehoods. I had shown an example in a previous post about how some people cleverly change the order of words to promote their own ideology;
I completely disagree with you that being skeptical of what men teach and say is an unhealthy road to spiritual truth. If you blindly accept what men say then it is my opinion that you are probably mentally lazy and will end up in some sort of organized religious cult. Maybe even a catholic.
Where exactly did I say to "blindly accept what men say"? [/b]You didn't and I didn't say you did. I started my analogy with the word "IF" and used it to make and emphasize my point.
Here we go with the "cult" business thrown in for good measure.
What's that supposed to mean? The point of your sarcasm escapes me. How many have been confused and joined cults for lack of critical judgement and following without being skeptical of the source. The reality of it is frightening to me.
If you agree with we should be as the bereans then you should also understand what I mean by healthy sketpticism. I have no wish to blindly accept what someone tells me is the "truth" regardless of who it is. I would ask you about how your faith was shaped before you found BT or even began to realize what a load of crap you got from organized religion. If you had maintained a berean attitude all along, perhaps what you found at BT would not have been such a dramatic change for you.
Did I not say we should be as the Bereans? Again, I never said blindly follow anyone. The progression of my faith is documented in the Testimony section of the forum.
There is not much new at BT that the early Christian didn't believe. Check it out.
I agree emphatically that we should shed the man made add ons to the faith, I may be considered ancient by some but I was not around in the first century, it took BT (through the Spirit) to open my eyes. I wasn't around then either but it didn't prevent from studying history.
feat, I pray you don't take this the wrong way, my motivation is to reason together, gain understanding together.
I don't think I took your original post the wrong way. If your aim was gaining an understanding together then your initial post might not have had all the markings of a lecture.
My original post was a paragraph in response to your statement about "certainly no lack of scripture" how does that qualify as a lecture? I didn't say it was a lecture but had the markings of one. quote "all languages have been influenced by latin...." sounds like the beginnings of a lecture to me. Is is also my opinion that the orientals would disagree with your statement, even so.
Since I "stumbled" onto Ray and Mike's sites I am no longer looking to the outside physical, carnal world to verify what God has planned for us, their articles have shown me (through the Spirit) that the greatest miracles are taking place within me, you, and all that are called to Him. I had no clue as to what this was before, but displacing the beast within me with the Spirit of Christ has become my supreme goal, not waiting for a rapture or watching out for the European Union to produce a charismatic leader or any of the physical signs so many are looking for. Is, was & will be, within all of our lives, each generation.
This is one reason I feel so obligated to speak up when I perceive the principles of BT are being watered down or questioned, be it blatant or subtle.
I think its is appropriate to speak out. It is the manner that causes concern.
Please be specific, what is the "manner" you speak of? Joe, I am not a child and don't need to be spoken down to. I understand that the purpose of the arcticle was to refute. I never said I thought any of it was accurate. Tell me what part of my post was inaccurate or in any way negative. You took issue with a statement about there being scripture quoted but said the same thing yourself before I did. You also left off the last half of the thought which was that it was lifted from Ray. If you reread all the posts before mine you will see what I am talking about.
That is what I mean by manner what I am speaking of in this case.
Brother, I have no animosity toward you at all, I hope you take this in the spirit it is given.
I have a lot to learn and probably need to be more careful about how I state things. I appreciate your effort to educate me. I can only assume that the your efforts were in the spirit of brotherly love.
We all need to be careful, myself included maybe especially. The written word is a two dimensional form of communication, the facial expressions, body language and tone of voice are all missing and sometimes words on paper can take on a more aggressive tone than intended.
Peace,
Joe
If you have anything else you wish to point out, I would very much appreciate it.
Please feel free to do the same with me, I learn from everyone. Thank you.
I have given my opinion on a few things but I would like to point out that I have no hidden agendas, I am not here to preach, teach or proselytize. I am here to learn. I have already disclosed my beliefs in a response to someone named Sorin on another thread which you read so I don't plan on repeating it here. I have tried to be respectful follow the rules and yet I feel like I have to tiptoe through a mine field. I find that the most disconcerting
Joe
feat
--- End quote ---
hillsbororiver:
I agree emphatically that we should shed the man made add ons to the faith, I may be considered ancient by some but I was not around in the first century, it took BT (through the Spirit) to open my eyes. I wasn't around then either but it didn't prevent from studying history.
LOL
Actually, I was never prevented from studying history, I just studied it with a healthy skepticism.
My original post was a paragraph in response to your statement about "certainly no lack of scripture" how does that qualify as a lecture? I didn't say it was a lecture but had the markings of one. quote "all languages have been influenced by latin...." sounds like the beginnings of a lecture to me. Is is also my opinion that the orientals would disagree with your statement, even so.
Main Entry: 1eter·nali-'t&r-n &l
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: i-'t&r-n & l
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus eternal, from aevum age, eternity -- more at AYE
1 a : having infinite duration : EVERLASTING b : of or relating to eternity c : characterized by abiding fellowship with God <good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? -- Mark 10:17 (Revised Standard Version)>
2 a : continued without intermission : PERPETUAL b : seemingly endless
3 archaic : INFERNAL <some eternal villain ... devised this slander -- Shakespeare>
4 : valid or existing at all times : TIMELESS <eternal verities>
- eter·nal·izei-'t&r-n&l-"īz /-n & l-"īz/ transitive verb
- eter·nal·lyi-'t&r-n&l-e /-n & l-e/ adverb
- eter·nal·ness noun
See the route this word took?
Also, Chinese (Hong Kong speaks English as a first language) Korean, Japanese, Viet Namese, ect. have been VERY influenced by English (Latin by extension as Latin has heavily influenced English) as they integrate into the Western economy, there is no doubt that their languages have incorporated English into the vernacular.
I attached this paper (from the Cambridge Review) to give more detail on how English has influenced Oriental language (among others) throughout the world. It is an interesting read.
http://www.zuckermann.org/english.pdf
Lighten up Feat, I am not your enemy, I originally only asked you to clarify a statement you made.
Peace Brother!
Joe
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver ---
Lighten up Feat, I am not your enemy, I originally only asked you to clarify a statement you made.
Peace Brother!
Joe
--- End quote ---
If only that were the case. If you had said "feat please clarify your statement, the results would have been much different. I was going to ask you to lighten up but thought it would be disrespectful to a moderator.
I don't consider you the enemy but had the distinct feeling that you felt that I was. I agree with you on the two dimensionality of print and the need to be careful in our wording. Likewise a more careful reading of what is written would also prevent some missunderstanding.
I am through with this thread. If you have anything else to say then pm me.
blessings to you and yours,
feat
hillsbororiver:
Feat, you are right. I need to remember that people here only know me through what I write, and the newer members know very little. At work we use e-mail to communicate constantly and sometimes the communications are short and to the point, without knowing the person it very well could be perceived as arrogant or harsh.
I promise to be more cognizant of this in the future and I thank you for helping me to realize what I need to do and how I may be perceived.
Sincerely,
Joe
Dan:
1Co 1:11 For concerning you, my brothers, it was shown to me by those of Chloe that there are strifes among you.
1Co 1:12 But I say this, that each of you says, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14 I give thanks to God that I did not baptize any one of you, except Crispus and Gaius,
1Co 1:15 that not anyone should say that you were baptized in my name.
1Co 1:16 And I also baptized the house of Stephanas. For the rest, I do not know if I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to announce the gospel, not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ be made of no effect.
1Co 1:18 For the Word of the cross is foolishness to those being lost, but to us being saved, it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it has been written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will set aside the understanding of the understanding ones." Isa. 29:14
Remember that we are not of BT, we are not of universalism.
We are of Christ, and the Spirit uses us as tools.(I dont know , but this is what 'Feat' might have meant by healthy skepticism;
not following any person or persons.
--- Quote ---it took BT (through the Spirit) to open my eyes.
--- End quote ---
this statement(to me) says BT is using the Spirit to open my eyes.
I say the Spirit uses BT to open my eyes.
(It is a big difference, because in Word or deed we put the Spirit/Christ first.)
I dont think Joe believes that BT is the first in order but all we have are words that are written to go by.(and others might misunderstand)
And sometimes you can tell what a person believes by what they write.
When I first came to Rays site I received confirmation of many things that I was already believing and wondered if there was anybody else who believed the same.
It was the Spirit who stripped me of prior beliefs and the Spirit who led me to BT. BT was another tool and a good one.
If I believe BT is what changed me, then I have become a "follower of BT"
I hope this comes across the way I intend it, (not harsh) and it makes sense to some, because I see many posts of the, "I am of BT" "I am of universalist" type.
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