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Author Topic: Daniel 12:2  (Read 2836 times)

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dboutwell

  • Guest
Daniel 12:2
« on: February 15, 2007, 10:42:46 PM »

If yall don't mind, will you please tell me how you explain Daniel 12:2?

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I feel that I can give a good reason for the hope that is in me concerning the salvation of all people, but this one passage gives me trouble. "Contempt" doesn't give me trouble, but "awake" does. When is this awakening?

I might add, too, that the people that I would be explaining the good news to, are pre trib, rapture...futurist, people.  Is there any way to explain it so they can understand without saying..."well, it's like this, Jesus ain't comin back. He came in AD70..."   

I might as well close up shop and go home because I will have lost my audience. Any help out there??
 
Thanks,

Debbie
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Sorin

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2007, 10:58:20 PM »

"Contempt" doesn't give me trouble, but "awake" does. When is this awakening?"

Simple. This awakening is the Resurrection. When exactly it will be, it does not tell us.
The problem with Christians is they don't believe they ever die, therefore they have no need for a resurrection. Likewise the rapturists have no need for a resurrection, since they believe they'll never die also. But if we never die then what's so amazing about Christ being risen, since even we don't die? And what's the point of having a resurrection of  living, conscience souls? How do you resurrect back to life, the living?   Man I swear I would get kicked out of every church.   :D


« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 10:59:28 PM by Sorin »
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DWIGHT

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2007, 11:48:17 PM »

Hi Debbie,

I just want to Amen what Sorin just said.  They just don't believe that they're going to die and really be dead!!  The Bible is very clear that the dead sleep; that is, the spirit goes back to God and the soul goes to hades (the place of the unknown or the imperceptable), and the body returns to the dust.  The awakening is just that, they awake from their sleep in the resurrection.  There is a first resurrection for the firstfruits who reign in the Kingdom of God and there is a second resurrection for all mankind; the just and the unjust.  These will be raised to judgement at God's great white throne and then be purified by God's consuming fire.

But Debbie, to try and pursuade these people of these truths is impossible unless God reveals it to them.  That's why we have come here to fellowship with those of like mind in Christ.  We were all blind until God had mercy on us and turned on the light. 

Sorin's right, he/us would get kicked out of every church in Christianity :o  I hope this helps you sister.  Your'e always welcome to fellowship here.....we're not so bad. ;D

Your brother,

Dwight
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dboutwell

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2007, 12:11:33 AM »

Thanks for your replies guys.  Let me see if I can put this together....for my own benefit, first.  There seems to be three views of things, now that I'm on this site :)

this could cause some serious laughter......

1. the futurist view..believers will be raptured, believers who have already died are in heaven....unbelievers will die and be raised again at the end of the thousand years to go through the lake of fire then somewhere in there God becomes all in all.

2. the preterist view...Jesus came back in AD 70 and fulfilled all prophecy. All are righteous?? and all instantly go to be with the Lord when they die??? Don't know when the resurrections take place

3. the soul sleep view....everyone is unconscious when they die until they are resurrected to be rewarded or condemned...lake of fire???

See, I told yall I didn't have the eschatology thing down yet. But I would really like to. I am in the process of building a web site because many of my family members and friends know that I believe all will eventually be with God. They may not admit it, but I know some of them would like to know why I believe that. We are not an argumentive bunch at all so they probably won't approach me with it, unless, they think it will send me to hell.

Any clarification is appreciated    ???

Debbie
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2007, 12:16:22 AM »

Amen again Sorin and also to you Dwight :)

The whole concept of dieing and then being resurrected is insane to every christian I know. However, the concept of there not being a resurrection / awakening considering the Word of God that refutes this very belief to the core is even more insane. Simply unbelievable; why they do not even believe the prayer they pray each sunday: "Our Father who art in Heaven,....thy Kingdom come...thy will be done....."  Amazing/

I also believe Ray refutes the word Everlasting rendering of `owlam [5769]

You can read his expose here  http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm

Great question though, Debbie :)

Love in Christ,
Darren
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2007, 03:01:30 AM »


Hi Debbie,

Dan 12:2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion. (CLV)

When we die, as has been said, our spirit goes back to the Father as spirit does not just go away, so God takes it back to Himself. So our mind goes to an unconscious state, awaiting (so to speak) for the resurrection.

1Cor 15:20  But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

Christ is the Firstfruit, so none were raised before Him.

v. 21  For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
v. 22  For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

All die as Adam did, spiritually and certainly physically returned to dust and are still dead.  It is by Christ all shall be raised from the dead, in a certain order.

v. 23  But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at His coming those who belong to Christ.

At His coming those called, chosen and faithful (Rev 17:14) are raised, this is the 'first' resurrection and they shall reign with Him on earth (Rev 5:10). This is the reward of the few (elect) that remained faithful in this life, whose names are in the Book of Life, Christ Jesus.

Rev 3:5  The one who overcomes, this one will be clothed in white clothing. And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

The rest of the dead, that is the vast majority of the whole human race, will then be raised, and cast into the lake of fire. This is their time of judgment and cleansing, this is the second death and it is by this lake of fire (not literal of course) that all will be saved.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gives up the dead in it, and death and the unseen give up the dead in them. And they were condemned, each in accord with their acts."
v. 14 And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death-the lake of fire.
v. 15 And if anyone was not found written in the scroll of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. (CLV)

It is much more complicated then what I have stated, Ray's articles go in to great detail to explain all of this.
I hope this will help some  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 12:50:15 PM by Kat »
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Chris R

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2007, 09:00:05 AM »

Hello,

`And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during. Dan 12:2 [ concordant ]

Not Everyone understands what this age-during is.  However the explanation is in great detail on the website.

Hope this helps a bit

Chris R
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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2007, 10:00:39 AM »

If yall don't mind, will you please tell me how you explain Daniel 12:2?

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I feel that I can give a good reason for the hope that is in me concerning the salvation of all people, but this one passage gives me trouble. "Contempt" doesn't give me trouble, but "awake" does. When is this awakening?

I might add, too, that the people that I would be explaining the good news to, are pre trib, rapture...futurist, people.  Is there any way to explain it so they can understand without saying..."well, it's like this, Jesus ain't comin back. He came in AD70..."   

I might as well close up shop and go home because I will have lost my audience. Any help out there??
 
Thanks,

Debbie




hi.

read the hebrew here and tell me what yall see???

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan12.pdf


ii see certian ones being ashamed in the presence of the holy ones and the lamb for an eon.



what say yall??

chuckt
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PKnowler

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2007, 12:24:32 PM »


Hey Chuck it's good to see ya! Long time no see.  :o

   <Sorry to interrupt this thread.>

Bless ya!  ;)
~Paula
« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 12:25:36 PM by PKnowler »
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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2007, 01:20:35 PM »


Hey Chuck it's good to see ya! Long time no see.  :o

   <Sorry to interrupt this thread.>

Bless ya!  ;)
~Paula



you to sis.

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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2007, 05:06:29 PM »

Hello Debbie

You ask and comment:

When is this awakening?

I might add, too, that the people that I would be explaining the good news to, are pre trib, rapture...futurist, people.  Is there any way to explain it so they can understand without saying..."well, it's like this, Jesus ain't comin back. He came in AD70..."

I received this information via Kat.

“Ray says, all the other trumpets have been and are sounding.
The only one left is the seventh trumpet of Rev. 11:15, with it's seven plagues of Rev. 15, which are poured out as it sounds/starts.”


 You ask : When?

Matt 24 : 42 Watch therefore, give strict attention, be cautious and active, for you do not know in what kind of day, whether a near or remote one your Lord is coming.

An excellent article follow up is Ray’s teaching called An Encouraging Word About Death – New


John 11 : 25 Jesus said to her (Martha), I am MYSELF the RESURRECTION  and the LIFE. Whoever believes in, adheres to, trusts in and relies on ME, although he may die, yet he shall live; (When? ..When shall he live? …at the Resurrection! Has the Resurrection started? No. Jesus has not returned. Will Jesus return after or during the Resurrection? No. Jesus IS the Resurrection. He is not back yet so people claiming to have died and gone to hell or heaven are only hallucinating! Are hallucinations real? Sure they are real! You can die from fright because of them. Are hallucinations true? NO. They lie but you can not tell a drug addict while he is tripping out that what he is seeing is not real. How do you rehabilitate a spiritual drug addict from the following categories you list ?

1.   the futurist view..believers will be raptured, believers who have already died are in heaven....unbelievers will die and be raised again at the end of the thousand years to go through the lake of fire then somewhere in there God becomes all in all. ;D

2. the preterist view...Jesus came back in AD 70 and fulfilled all prophecy. All are righteous?? and all instantly go to be with the Lord when they die??? Don't know when the resurrections take place 
   ;D

First they will need a change of mental diet.  8)  You should brace yourself to find out that perhaps they will not want to change.  >:( They like what they are getting.

Second, introducuction  by an intravenous drip to administer the nourishing life giving restoring balancing food from Exposing the Secret Rapture Theory.  ;D and all the material on Bible Truths still requires administration by needle and will be experienced as very nasty of you and in some cases as extremely painful. Be warned! .... recognise that druggies might like needles but they  do not like food.   :D If they do not get their fix, withdrawal symptoms need to be addressed. The follow up treatment is to read Winning Souls for Jesus?

Before trying to help anyone, you will need to know all about the dietry suppliments and food that helps in rehab. You can not give what you can not take.

At Bible Truths we learning that only God can give sight to the blind or set captives free. this much HE has done and is doing for us who have been dragged here! ... we are all in rehab. here! :D and we are very far and few between...scattered...throughout the world....

2 Tim 1 : 7 ....God doesn't give us a mouse mentality; this isn't a "Wimps for Jesus Club". No, we get spiritual muscle,passionate love for people and strong focus - all direct from God.( The Word on the Street translation Rob Lacey)

I recognise your strong love for people Debbie!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)




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dboutwell

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2007, 02:23:30 AM »

Thank you folks. I am listening and taking it in. Arcturus, I am keeping that IV needle taped fast to my arm too. ;D I will be reading some on the website.

I don't wanna starve!

Debbie
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2007, 01:44:55 AM »

Hi Debbie.  Just wanted to welcome you.  Its been awhile.

Hey God Bless your endeavor.  You are much braver than I.  I just spent a couple of days w/ relatives and I didn't breathe one word about anything. ::)

The scriptures posted here are great.  Thanks posters.  I get a little convoluted at times too w/ the timeline etc.
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2007, 07:15:31 AM »

Great Debbie

Me too.... and I've got the oxygen mask!.....LOF and BT is a breath of fresh air! ;D :D

I know what you mean about time zones Gena but it works for me because while I edit and re-edit my posts    :o   think and re-think what I am saying... ::)    it is just as well you guys are asleep ;D :D 8)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2007, 07:23:55 AM by Arcturus »
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dboutwell

  • Guest
Re: Daniel 12:2
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2007, 01:30:21 AM »

well, folks, It's been a long, busy, weekend. Maybe I'll have some time to do some more reading up on the articles suggested. When I do, I'm sure I'll have some questions or comment. Thanks for all the good advice and fellowship :)

Debbie
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