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Dreams?
YellowStone:
Arcturus wrote:
Darren states : I do not believe that we should give to much credence to dreams, especially if they are not clearly understood as those in the above Scriptures. This is of course my understanding that has been given to me through the Word of God.
If John did not give credence to his dreams, especially if it was not clearly understood …..then we would not have the book of Revelations because John did not understand what he saw. He was instructed to write it down not to understand it!
If Joseph, the wise men, Cornelius Peter and Paul did not pay attention or give credence to their dreams…..just figure!..... :D
Good morning Arcturus :) I thank you for your input and appreciate deeply your perspective.
I too struggled over the same Scriptures that you posted.
Here is why I did not include them: :)
Dream (onar) [3677]
Outline of Biblical Usage :
1) a dream
Root Word: (Unknown in Strongs)
Vision (horama) 3705
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) that which is seen, spectacle
2) a sight divinely granted in an ecstasy or in a sleep, a vision
Root Word: horao [3708]
1) to see with the eyes
2) to see with the mind, to perceive, know
3) to see, i.e. become acquainted with by experience, to experience
4) to see, to look to
a) to take heed, beware
b) to care for, pay heed to
5) I was seen, showed myself, appeared
Trance (ekstasis) [1611]
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) any casting down of a thing from its proper place or state, displacement
2) a throwing of the mind out of its normal state, alienation of mind, whether such as makes a lunatic or that of a man who by some sudden emotion is transported as it were out of himself, so that in this rapt condition, although he is awake, his mind is drawn off from all surrounding objects and wholly fixed on things divine that he sees nothing but the forms and images lying within, and thinks that he perceives with his bodily eyes and ears realities shown him by God.
3) amazement, the state of one who, either owing to the importance or the novelty of an event, is thrown into a state of blended fear and wonderment
Do you see my dilemma? :) I could not in Truth tie the occurance of the usage of "dream" as a "vision" or "trance" like state. Certainly the two words have no common ground in meaning, although contextually it would appear that they do. Is this a fundamental mistake in "our" understanding? Is a dream a vision? The Greek Scriptures do not support this by the words used. (Any help on this would be greatly appreaciated)
Here are all of the usages of the word "Vision" that I could find in the Greek Scriptures.
Mat 17:9
* And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Luk 1:22
* And when he came out, he could not speak unto them: and they perceived that he had seen a vision in the temple: for he beckoned unto them, and remained speechless.
Luk 24:23
* And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
Act 9:10
* And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I [am here], Lord.
Act 9:12
* And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting [his] hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
Act 10:3
* He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
Act 10:17
* Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
Act 10:19
* While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
Act 11:5
* I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
Act 12:9
* And he went out, and followed him; and wist not that it was true which was done by the angel; but thought he saw a vision.
Act 16:9
* And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
Act 16:10
* And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
Act 18:9
* Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:
Act 26:19
* Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Rev 9:17
* And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
I agree with you Arcturus that "visions" are in need of interpretation. :)
Returning to what you said in part: "If John did not give credence to his dreams, especially if it was not clearly understood …..then we would not have the book of Revelations"
I would agree wholeheartedly with your statement if John had been dreaming, but I do not believe that he was. In Rev 9:17, he states that: "I saw the horses in the vision"
Was he sleeping during the time of this vision. possibly; but the Scriptures do not support that he was dreaming, it was more than that. :)
Please note, that there is no pride in this post, I am merely on a quest for the discovery of Truth. :)
Love in Christ,
Your Brother,
Darren
Redbird:
Could it be that dreams come to those who are sleeping, visions come to those who are awake? I see them as being different also.
Peace, Lisa
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Lisa
There are 14 dreamers of Scripture:
Abimelech Gen 20 : 3,6
Jacob Gen 28:12; Gen 31 : 10-11
Laban 31 : 24
Joseph 37: 5 -10
The chief butler 40: 9 – 15
The chief baker 40 : 16 – 23
Pharaoh 41 : 1 – 32
A Midianite Jud 7 : 13 -15
Nebuchadnezzar Dan 2 and 4
Daniel Dan 2 and 7
Joseph Mt 1 : 20; 2 : 13 – 22
The wise men Mt 2 : 12
Pilates’s wife Mt 27 : 19
There are 21 Men who had visions from God
Abraham Gen 15 : 1
Jacob Gen 46 : 2
Balaam Num 24 : 4,16
Samuel 1 Sam 3 : 1 , 15
Nathan 2 Sam 7 : 17 1 Chr 17 : 15
Isaiah isa 1 : 1,; 2 Chr 32 : 32
Messiah Ps 89 : 19
Exekiel Ex 7 : 13; 8 : 1 – 27; 9 : 21 – 24
Nebuchadnezza Dan 2
Obadiayh Oba 1
Nahum Nah 1 :1
Habakkuk hab 2 : 2 – 3
Peter Mat 17 : 9 Reve ( :17
Zacharias Lk 1 : 22
Ananias Acts 9: 10 – 12
Cornelius Acts 10 : 3 , 17
Paul Acts 16 : 9 – 10;
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Redbird:
That is awesome, Arcturus. I am going to print that list out and do some studying.
Thank you so much.
Lisa
Deborah-Leigh:
Your enthusiasm to know HIM and seek HIM through His word really does bless me Lisa.
Happy digging for treasure! HE is the treasure!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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