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God's only begotten Son
DWIGHT:
Hi all,
For many years I have thought about the Father and the Son and their eternal relationship. The word beget or begotten occurs in both the Old and New testaments many times. The Greek word is 'monogenes' it means..only born, that is, sole: only (begotten, child), Strongs #3439. Now we have read and heard this term most of our lives but did we ever really know what it actually meant? According to Merriam-Webster Collegiate Thesaurus, there are two synonyms to this word beget, and they are: (1) Father and (2) procreate. A deeper meaning goes like this; to sire or bring into life.
Now the question is, if Jesus was sired or brought to life, how can He be eternal? The Bible says that He is eternal, and yet it also says He was the only begotten Son of the Father...a contradiction? No!!!!
Brother Ray has taught us so many deep truths, that the other day, Joe said, we could discuss his teachings on the forum for a long time even if he never wrote another paper.
When the audios from the September conference came out, Ray said something that absoulutley blew me away. It's the #2 audio about God creating Adam and Eve in His own image. I have wondered why no one has brought this up before or maybe you have and I just didn't see it, but toward the end of his message he said, "where did His Son come from?" Now you had to listen to the first part of the audio to know why Ray asked this question.
Ray shows and proves to us through the scriptures that in creating Adam and Eve in His image that God is both male and female. Gen. 1:24 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
Then later in Gen. 5:1-2, "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness (image) of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them," Now, for those of you that are hearing this for the first time, please don't fall off your chair as I almost did.
God created all the different species with a mate except for Adam, and the scripture says, that it is not good for man to be alone; and then God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam then He took one of his ribs and made a woman. When Adam saw the woman he said, this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh because she was taken out of man. Now, when you hear what Adam really says, you'll be shocked. He looked at the woman and saw that she had something that had belonged to Adam and it was not just a rib. Remember that God created Adam in His image and His image is both male and female....so what Adam really saw was the female part that he had, and now it was in the woman. He never created Eve from the dust like he did Adam; He created Eve from Adam because Adam was both male and female, like God.
This revelation that God is both male and female unlocks the mystery of the oneness of the Father and the Son. Have you ever heard that expression, "you were just a twinkling in your fathers eye?" Sure you were, because you were always in your father. Jesus has always been in the Father and the Father is eternal and so is Jesus. The Father begot Jesus, thus Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father. He was in the begining because He was always in the Father. When Ray blew away the doctrine of the so called trinity, this began to open my eyes to the oneness of the Father and the Son.
Now the Fathers' desire is to have childern, that's why He told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and to multiply or have children. This symbol is Christ and the Church. God and the Son are one, and God and the Son want to be one with us, His children. Why? That God may be all.
Brothers and sisters, I hope this helps to open our eyes to His eternal plan for us, I know that Ray only touched upon this because there is so much more to be unveiled that we may not be ready, but I just had to share this because it's been stirred up in me ever since I listened to it.
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Jn. 17:21-26.
The oneness that we share with each other is in the Father and the Son. Brothers and sisters........we have always been in the Father. Praise His holy Name.
Your brother,
Dwight
PKnowler:
Wow, that interesting Dwight! I've never heard the audios from the September conference. Thanks for sharing this!
I love the last sentence you wrote Brothers and sisters........we have always been in the Father.
That's awesome!
~Paula :)
Kat:
Hi Dwight,
I just listened to that audio the other day :)
You brought out some very good points.
--- Quote ---Now the question is, if Jesus was sired or brought to life, how can He be eternal?
--- End quote ---
I was searching and found a few things of Ray's that I think might add to what you have already presented.
Here is an email.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2666.0.html ----------------------
Hi Ray, I Love your straight forward answers to the many carnal questions you must receive on a daily basis. I hope you dont find mine as such.
Question:
In what state of being was Jesus before he came to earth considering that GOD is Spirit and Jesus while on earth was a man just like you and I.
Some where in Johns Gospel Gods word states that Jesus Christ comes to earth in the flesh.
Respectfully,
Louie
Dear Louie:
Jesus was the LORD [Jehovah] God of the Old Testament. He "emptied" Himself is the word used in Phillipians to describe what Jesus did in order to become man, flesh, so that He could DIE. He has once again been returned to this splender, although he always had the "glory" of God upon Him even in His flesh. Jesus now possesses with the Father all power in heaven and earth, and all judgment is given unto Him.
God be with you,
Ray
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Here is an excerpt from Ray's Trinity paper too. It makes some very good points about how Christ and the Father relate, before He was born on earth.
http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html -----------------------------------------------------
Here is Who and What Jesus Christ is, He is the "one LORD." This is not hard. John 8:5-6 makes the following very clear:
This Scripture tells us that "ALL IS OUT OF" GOD (the FATHER).
And this Scripture tells us that "ALL IS THROUGH" Jesus Christ.
God the Father is the first cause of all and ALL IS OUT GOD, even Jesus Christ is "OUT of God."
"...I [Jesus] came OUT from God. I CAME OUT FROM the FATHER..." (John 16:27-28).
Jesus Christ is not the SUPREME DEITY. Christ is not the originator of all. Christ is "the Lord." He is the Son of God. He is the IMAGE of the invisible God. He is the Mediator,
For there is ONE God, and ONE Mediator OF God and mankind, a MAN Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5).
As I said before, one cannot be both "of" something or someone and at the same time "be" that something or someone.
Okay then, let’s notice a few very important points. Jesus never came out and said "I AM GOD!" He always called Himself, "The Son OF God." Recall that Jesus did not consider it "pillaging" to be equal with God. That is, he didn’t need to steal, or take His office by FORCE, because His God, the Father, GAVE ALL THINGS TO HIM FREELY! Though Jesus is certainly "God," we must always remember that everything that made Him "God" (like His Father), WAS GIVEN TO HIM!
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Dwight I am so happy that you have come forward to share what you have seen and that Kat has added to your insights.
I too was stirred by this observation and I have not understood it. It really threw me! All kinds of questions blew my mind! I was still on the floor and after seeing your thread and reading your post I think I am now seeing some light! Please help me out here...
So...we, the called, have come out from God through Jesus
John 1 : 1 In the beginning was the Word (Christ) and the Word was with God
...and God draggs us back to Jesus who conforms us to HIS image
Heb 12 : 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith:
... and when finished....that we may be one in one with Jesus who is in God.....
Those who are not in judgment now of God's process (those who are not called now ) of judgment, will be conformed into the image of Jesus later in the LOF White Throne and then after that God will be ALL in all......
Can you see any flaws in this understanding so far Kat or Dwight?..do you have any re-inforcements either?
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
DWIGHT:
Arcturus,
You are right on. For God to be all, He had to cause all, including the fall of man. As the Father, He wanted children; His Son was His only begotten, but He wanted children for His glory. They (the children) all came from the creation of Jesus (Jehovah), or out of Jesus. In the garden, they had no idea what they had, because they had nothing to compare it with, so He made the tree of good and evil. When they ate it, they died spiritually and so death passed upon all mankind. Through Christ and the cross, came the sacrifice for all mankind, so that God the Father, through Christ, could reconcile the whole world to Himself and thus be all and all.
Sister, I know that is probably oversimplifying, but some times the clearer the picture, the easier it is to see. Of course, much is left out, but that is also for a purpose; the types, the alegories, the parables, the signs, and many other things, but it all has to do with the will and purpose of God.
Remember that God the Father is the husbanman, and Christ is the firstfruit, then the chosen are the firstfruits, and then comes the harvest, It is a perfect picture of Him who is, was and will be. When Christ, who is from God, will put all under His feet and everthing is subject unto Him, that is, He has purified man in this age and the age to come, then He will deliver up the kingdom to God that God may be all and all.
In the end, the whole universe and all the earth will be God; He will be all and all.
I hope that many others will help us here, because this is just the tip of the iceberg.
God bless,
Dwight
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