Conference Transcript - Adam and Eve

[Kat]

This is a transcript taken from the 2nd and 3rd audios.
Some notes Ray handed out at the conference and scriptures have been added.


                                            Adam and Eve


God introduces something that I think we read over.
In resent years I'm starting to pay attention to the words, those words are in there for a reason, ok.

Gen 1:26  "And God said, Let Us make man [humanity] in Our image, after Our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.
Gen 1:27 And God created man in His [Own] image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female."

In the Hebrew Interlinear, reading from right to left:
"And He is creating, Elohim, the human in the image of Him, in the image of Elohim He creates him, male and female He creates them."

And now from the Concordant Version:
"And creating is the Alueim [God] humanity in His Image.  In the Image of the Alueim [God] He creates it.  Male and female He creates them."

Did you get that?  God is creating man in OUR image.
Clearly the point is made that creating mankind in the image of God is in the indefinite tense [past/present/future] and not in the pasted tense as in the King James and most bibles.  This creation continues.

God wants children in HIS VERY OWN IMAGE.  This is God's plan.  This is God's purpose.  This is the reason for the creation of humanity.  This is "The WILL of the Father."

Old Testament:  "And creating is God humanity IN HIS IMAGE.  In the image of the God He creates it. Male and female He creates them." (Gen. 1:27)

New Testament:  " For whom He [the Father] did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be [complete is yet future] COFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Rom. 8:29).

Look there are two things here.  God creates man in His own image, ok.  "In the image of God creates He him, male and female creates He them."  So man is created in the image of God, right.  But did you catch it?  The female is created in the image of God.  Did you miss that?  The female is created in the image of God, therefore God is female.  But we call Him 'Him,' so He's male too.  HE'S BOTH.

It doesn't say God is evil, He has a knowledge of good and evil.  But He is good.
But when it comes to male and female, they are both equally in the image of God, or being made in the image of God, or in the image of God He's making 'them.'
It's both ways.  They're being made into His image and He is making them in His image.  You see that?  You see how it's repeated twice there.

"Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness."  So God created man in His image, "in the image of God."  The verse says "in the image of God created He them, Male and female,"  see God created man in His image, but then in the image of God, "He created them male and female."  Female is in the image of God, God is female.   God is male and female.  Where did God ever get the idea for a female?  Is this something that doesn't exist in His being?  Is this something foreign to God?  Femininity is in God.  That's why He took that and made a representation of that, in the form of a woman.  That's God!  Just as much as the man is God.

I think some of you women have felt slighted over the years, that God is not a woman.  Well some religious groups refer to God as she, you know.  God in His image He created a woman, yet the only way He could do that, is that woman was in God.  And then He created out of that (from Himself), the woman.

I heard someone say El-Shaddai, El - being God, Shaddai - breath.  El- Shaddai the God with breath or the breath of God.

So when we talk about the man and the woman now, we're talking about in the image of God Himself, in both of them.  Man is in the God's image, so the woman is the feminine side of God, ok.

I don't want to get in trouble with this next thing here.  I've shied away from it a little bit.
That is, how long were these days of creation.  People just get highly offended and I don't have all dogmatic proof yet, that I would really want before I make a dogmatic statement on it.  But, I have felt for many, many years that the creation days are not 24 hour days.

First of all, and it came to be , morning and it came to be evening the first day.  And it came to be evening and it came to be morning, day one.  There is no such phrase like that one, no where else in the rest of the Bible, that's very unique, nothing like that, no where.  There is nothing close to that anywhere in the Bible.  The phrase is 6 times for the creation days, but nowhere else.

Let me preference with this in Gen 2:15.  If we pay close attention to the words, sometimes the simplest little word, we can learn so much.  If we just believe God, that He used a word, that really means something, you see.

Gen 2:15  "The LORD God took the man [not the man and the woman, He's recapping, we're going back now with a little more detail, how He did all this creating; chapter 1 He talks about everything quickly, chapter 2 He fills in some of the details], and put him in the garden of Eden to dress it and keep it."

What is that?  How did he dress and keep the garden?   If you have a one acre yard and garden and maybe you have a few fruit trees, cucumbers and tomatoes or whatever.  And I told you I was going to have to leave for a couple of months and I wanted you, while I was gone, to dress it and keep it for me.  Would you have any idea what I was talking about?   Maybe it's tend to it, but how would you tend to it?  Pull out the weeds, what else, I mean we are in a little different age, and God cursed the land, it was a little different.  But the meaning of these words have not changed. 
It means to cultivate, to till the ground, to guard it (against varmints or whatever would come in and eat it) maybe prune the trees.  The Bible speaks of such things, because when you prune trees they produce more fruit, right.

Now do we believe that God made the creation and then later in the six days, remembered He made them male and female on the same day He made the animals, right?  Now lets say this is the 24 hour period and He made 6000 species of animals, how long did that take?  I would suggest it was pass lunch time before He got to man, maybe coming towards evening, right.  Because the last thing He made on that day was man.  If that was a 24 hour period, can you believe God made man about 3:30 or 4:00 in the afternoon and then said I want you to dress and keep the garden until the sun goes down.
Well we got another problem, in verse 18;   

Gen 2:18  "Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone;"

The word 'be' there is translated by Rotherham, and in some as 'continue' or 'remain.'  Sometimes the King James will just throw you off completely on a verse, with one simple little word like 'be.'  God said, "It is not good that the man should be (remain or continue) alone;"  Well if He made man at 3:30 in the afternoon and the sun is going down at 6:00 and another two and a half hours he's got to tend and keep the garden.  How long did he have to be alone before he gets a wife?  Because he's going to make a wife on the sixth day too it says, right?  He couldn't make it for two hours? 
I mean before I quite my job I was away from my wife, for at least 8 hours every single day.  And Adam here is created 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon and pretty soon the sun is going down, and God said it's just not good for man should remain alone, it's just not good. 
So man is tending the garden here, tilling the soil, pulling the weeds, you say what if it don't have weeds?  Well you don't know that, look up what those words mean, it means to till and all that and it mean to guard. 
God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him."  But not today, we got work to do?

Gen 2:19  "So out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name."

I don't know how many thousands of animals there was, but there are a lot of species.  Somebody suggested 6000.  How did Adam name these animals?  He named them according to their characteristics.  An elephant was a big bulky thing and he probably called it, in Hebrew 'the big bulky thing,' you know.  And an ant eater, 'a nose ground eater,' he eats on the ground with his nose or whatever.  But before he could name them, he had to observe them, he had to know what their characteristics, what they did and how they acted.  Now had Adam said, I guess I'll call this a duck.  God would say, that's good whatever you want to call them, that's what we're going to call them.  Six thousand species he named, between 4:00 and sundown.  Are you kidding me?  And after naming those 6000 species, it said at the end of verse 20, "and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him."  He noticed that they all had a partner, they all had a partner, except him.

Do you really think this all took place between 3:30 and 5:00 or 6:00 in the afternoon? 
That he had no mate, and God said you know it's not good that man should be alone,  it's not good that man should remain alone, it's not good that he should continue to be alone, it's not good that he should stay alone.  But then He gave him more things to do.  Now we got to name all the animals, how many weeks did that take, how many months did it take?  How many years did he take care of the garden? 
I just don't believe it says he tended and kept the garden and tilled the ground, named all 6000 species and all this in 2 hours.  I believe this took years.  Adam didn't have a mate for years.  He longed for a mate, everybody had a mate, the elephants had a mate, the chickens had a mate, they all had a mate, but he didn't have a mate.

Gen. 2:18 God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him." 

But not now, we have to name the animals, and keep tilling the garden, we'll just keep doing this.  But if you going to believe orthodoxy, it's 6 literal days, you got to fit it in there.  It all happened in late afternoon, you know, between 3:00 and 6:00, well whatever.
God did not have to repeat that it's not good that this man should stay alone, because he went 2 hours without a mate, give me a break.   I mean I'm sure he had a lot of testosterone, but I don't think that he couldn't go 2 hours.  I'm thinking it was years.

Now they have about 10 ways, that they can date the universe or the earth.  You know they put the earth at about 5 ½ billion and the universe at 15 or 20 billion years.  Now I don't know if it's that huge a thing, but I believe the creation days are more than 24 hours. I'll prove to you from Genesis, the first Chapter itself, that even the Bible says that all of those creations days were ONE day.

Gen 2:4  "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in THE day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."

What does it say?  When did He make the earth and the heavens?  In ONE DAY.  But we just read it was 6.  And now 6 days are called THE day.   
Day has different connotation, when the sun comes up you say it's day. 
From sunup to sunset is day.  But from sunup until sunup, the night and the day is called day.  And God said a thousand years to Him is but a day, ok. 

And then we have the day of God wrath.  That great and terrible day of the Lord. 
And I don't have this one down yet either, but I'm getting there and I'm studying it, off and on, in the back of my head and with the scripture. 
I believe 'the day of the Lord,' starts when Christ returns.  He returns in wrath and I think that wrath continues through judgment.  Those coming up in judgment are going to have God's wrath poured upon them (If they didn't have it poured upon them when they were in the flesh, the first time around, before they died), and then they come up in the second resurrection. 
And then it says they are going to store up for themselves wrath.  Well if they died and didn't get it and at sometime they're going to get it.  And they don't come up until after the millennium?  And we know that the beginning of the millennium God comes back in wrath, so we are talking about several eons or millenniums of time called 'a day.'

So am I totally off base, when I say a day can mean more than 24 hours?  I don't think so.
There are 10 ways that they date the earth, you know.  The more resent, that go back about a 5000 years.  They use radio carbon 14 dating, ok, beyond that it's not very accurate.  Then they use isotope dating and they have 10 of them and ironically all 10 of them project the age of the universe is somewhere between 10 and 20 billion years, all 10 of them.  Except it's not that way, ok.  But I don't know, they know there's some inconsistencies in those things and the way they operate now, maybe they didn't always operate that way, under climatic conditions or whatever. 

But there is one very physical way that I think we can probably agree that the earth is more than 6000 years old and that the creation days are more that 24 hour periods.
Now you all know if you cut down a tree it has rings, right.  One ring for one year, winter and summer produces a ring.  Even modern times you still have rings.  They are physical, you can't say that I think these 3 rings are all one year, it doesn't work that way.  One ring, one years. 
And you know there are trees that are 4000 years old.  Brisklecone pines out in California and Arizona you know some are 4000 years old.  They were little saplings when Moses crossed the red sea, maybe.  They're still alive, and they have rings.

When it snows every year and you have a warm and a cold climate, you have a lot of snow or not much and you cut down through the ice layers,  they're like the rings of a tree.  They took a core, back in 1982 or 1982.  I think it took them a whole year to do it, in Russia.  They went down to a very deep ice field, 2096 meters, and took a core.  And of course they chopped it into pieces and lined them up and put them in freezers, and then they started to study them.  You start at the top and you go back and you can count the seasons.  So they have a piece of ice 2096 meters long, that's like 6000 ft., that's a mile and a quarter, right. 
The ice field where they took this sample goes down another 1700 ft.  The reason they didn't go any further is because when you get down that deep, the weight of the ice is so enormously heavy that it crushes the seasonal rings.  So that they are indistinguishable, you see.  The tremendous weight just crushes them together, like an accordion. 
But in the 2096 meters of ice, guess how many of those seasonal rings there are?  100,060.
 
Now unless God is playing tricks on us and producing rings in trees, in years that didn't exist you see and He produced layers of seasonal ice that didn't exist, then we don't have to go into isotope dating or any of that stuff, we got physical rings and layers and you can count them. 
So to help verify it, they go back and say ok we know that there was a eruption in this part of Russia or Asia are in some place.  A huge eruption of a volcano in 622, lets see if we can go back on the rings, to where we think it's about 622 and see if there are any volcano deposits in the ice.  And they find them.  So they know that this is pretty accurate and it's physical.  100,060 layers that they can count.  So maybe the earth is more than 6000 years old.

 

[Kat]

                                                                                                                  page 2/Adam and Eve

And what I am saying, in my heart and mind I don't believe that Adam tilled the garden and took care of the garden, and how big was it?  1000 acres?  I don't know how big it was, he took care of all that and then he named all the animals and everything in a few hours before sunset.  I just don't believe that.  I believe it took certainly months, if not years. 
And if God was just going to create Adam and say ok, now one of your jobs in the future is going to be to keep the garden, no.  Now He was saying it to him then, you might say ok some of it you and your wife  going to do together later,  no then. 
He gave it to him now, and by the way, when you and your wife are taking care of the garden I want you to name the animals.  He had to name them then and after he named all 6000 species, guess what?  There was no one for Adam, there was no one for him.  Can't you see the longing here, over a long period of time?  I think it was at least years.  He didn't have a mate, he looked for one and even God admitted that it was not good for man to continue forever without a mate.  I'll make him one, but not today.  Now, then He says but there was none found for him.

Gen 2:21  So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh.
v. 22  And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man.

So we're told God took a rib and closed it back up and made a woman out of the rib.  Now He then said, wake up Adam I've got something for you.  He wakes up Adam and He brings him to the woman Eve.

Gen 2:23  Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

Is that what he said?  Would you like to know what the Hebrew says? 

You know, I knew this for I don't know how long, 10-15 years I learned this. 
And so when I was doing this study I thought, well I'll get the exact wording from the Concordance and see how they say it, because the Concordance is the only one that got this right.  And I looked in my Concordance and it wasn't in there.  The Concordance didn't even get it right.  The Concordance of the Old Testament doesn't have it right. 
But I got 5 other translations that got it right.  Why you never read them is because you just passed over them and didn't see it.
Adam didn't say, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."  That is not what he said.  He was longing for a mate, God acknowledged it was not good for the man to be alone, and said I'll make him a mate.  Now we read over here where did the woman come from?  The woman is in the image of God.  God didn't make man and then make woman out of the side or image of man.  No, it plainly says;

Gen 1:27  "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Female is created in the image of God.  There is female in God.  God is female just as much as God is male.  Where did He get the idea of femininity?  It's in Him, it's a part of Him.  Adam is longing for this part of him that is missing.  Maybe he didn't fully understand what testosterone was, but he was feeling the effects of it and not only that, he had nobody to talk to.  He talked to God.  But He was on a little higher level there, you know.  Adam might say, what did you do today God?  Well I don't know, what did you do Adam?  Well, pulled some weeds.  And I noticed all those animals I named, they all have a partner.  I was wondering why it is I don't have a partner God, why is that?

So we read over here that the female came out from God.  That's where it originated, God is female just as much as He is male and now He creates the man, and the man has no female counterpart.  The animals do, he doesn't.  But he longed for it and God admits he shouldn't be alone like this.  I've got to make him a mate, but not today.  I'm saying it was years later. 

So He takes something out of Adam (notice He didn't make the woman out of the dust of the ground), He took something out of Adam to make the female.  We're told it was a rib.  I think we're told wrong.
So God finally makes Adam a woman and He brings her to him and he says, "This is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh..."  How did he know that?  How could he look at the woman and say, hmm, let me see here, there is one missing, Lord there is one missing, did you take my rib and make that woman for me?  Do you think that's what happened? 
He looked at her and instantly knew?  But that's not what he said, he didn't say, "This is bone of my bone,"  Here is what he said, I'll give you the translation from James Moffet.  He looked at her and said, "this AT LAST is bone of my bone!"  Why did he say at last?  Did he say I've been dieing to have a mate for over a hour?  That is nonsense.  Adam went for years without a mate, he was tilling the garden, he was taking care of the garden and he was naming all the animals, and who knows what else he was doing.  But now he said "At last,"  where it says, "this is now," that word 'now' means "at last," finally someone for me. 
The New World Translation say, "This is at last bone of my bone."
The New American Version says, "This one at last is bone of my bone."
The New Revised Standard Version says, "This at last is bone of my bone."
The Living Bible say and I like this one, "This is it!" she is part of my own bones and flesh, this is it, Adam exclaimed. 
So first of all he was excited.  I mean what a beauty, I mean come on, all for me.  But it was at least, you know he waited a long time, finally after all these years, finally someone for me, ok.
How did he know it was bone of his bone?  How could he look at Eve and say, you came out of me?  What did he see?  God didn't say, Adam I know your going to wonder where this woman came from.  I put you to sleep and I took a rib, I made her.  No, he could tell, he looked and saw and he said that's me, you come from me.  How did he know that?  He looked, he had something before he went to sleep, he had something and when he woke up and God brought him to the woman, he didn't have it anymore.  She had it!  What do you suppose that was?  He, just like God, was male and female.  God is male and female, Adam was male and female.  God took the female part and made a woman out of it.  Adam saw that what he had was now gone, it's over there.  She came from me, that's bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh, she came out of me. 

Now can you see any spiritual connection in all this?  How God is longing for a compliment, a counterpart, someone to compliment someone.  It says a counterpart in the Greek, a compliment, or a help meet.  A counter part for Adam that was not found, now he has a compliment, a counterpart to him, to make him complete. 

That's what God is longing for.  Where is it going to come from?   Out of Him.  He has one Son, Jesus Christ, we are sons in the making.  So where did Christ come from? 

In the Hebrew the word is no. 6763 - tsela, and it can be translated 'rib,' and door, side and chamber.  In Ezekiel 10 times this same word translated rib is translated chamber.  A chamber-maid is usually some one who tends to the house, but specially the bedroom.  If you look up chamber, the definition is a private room.  The bedroom is your most private room.  Our sexual anatomy is called our private parts.  Can you put it together?  This is not a rib.  He took the femininity from him and made a woman.  First He put it in the man, and then He took it from the man and made a woman out of it.

Now interesting thing.  It says in Tim. 2:14, that when Eve took the forbidden fruit she was deceived, the serpent had deceived her.  But Adam was not deceived.  Well if she was deceived, and she ate the fruit.  Why did Adam eat it?  He wasn't deceived, so why did he eat it?  Why didn't he say you dumb female, you stupid wife of mine.  How could you do such a dumb thing.  No, no he did not.  She gave him some and he ate it too. 
Why, would he do that?  He knew.  Because God told him first, and He told him specifically.  And we know Eve knew because she said to the serpent, "God has said."  But first He said it to Adam before he created the Eve.  You can eat of every tree but of this tree you can not and the day you eat there of you will DIE. (Gen. 2:16-17)
In the Hebrew, 'to die you shall be dying."  You will begin to die, you will be mortal and just die.  You will be mortal and come to old age and die.  So he knew that, he knew that when Eve ate it she was going to die.  He longed for that woman so long and now she is going to die.  He loved her so much, he said if she is going to die, I'm going to die with her, and he ate the fruit.  He knew full well he would die, and he said I'm going with her.  I'm not going to let her go alone, you see.  So he was willing to die for that woman.
You see any spiritual connections?

Eph 5:25  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it [He died],
v. 26  that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,
v. 27  that He might present it to Himself as the glorious church, without spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that it should be holy and without blemish.
v. 28  So men ought to love their wives as their own bodies.

The first woman came from the body of man.

v. 28 "He who loves his wife loves himself.
v. 29  For no man ever yet hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord loves the church.
v. 30  For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones."

Adam said to the woman, she is flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone, she came out of me.

So we are members of His body, flesh of his flesh and it says;

Gen 2:24 For this cause, will a man leave his father and his mother, and cleave unto his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

When a man and a woman are united in sexual intercourse their bodies are inside of each other.  I mean that's a pretty good connection, that's not just a hand shake.  Your bodies literally inside of each other (I hope I'm not too gross, but there are no children).  They are one flesh, in that relationship, you see.  And that is why you're not suppose to fornicate with prostitutes.  Because when you're joined to a prostitute you're one flesh too, and that's an abomination.  You cling to your wife, not your wife and your girl friend and the local whore.  Your wife, because your one flesh, you see.
This is a great mystery it says.  But I'm speaking concerning Christ and His church.  The relationship of Christ with the church, it typified by the relationship of a loving husband and a loving wife in sexual intercourse.  When they are so emotionally intertwined with one another, that they are literally one flesh.  This is the relationship we're going to have with God.  Christ refers to the church as the Bride of Christ. 
The bride is going to be all decorated, by that we mean, made spotless and sure and clean, character wise.  A fitting Bride for the creator of the universe.

Paul taught the church in Ephesians, this mystery of a man and a woman coming together.  You know after a man longs for a woman for so long, and I'm saying years.
If I'm a heretic, then I'm a heretic, but that's what I believe.
But for years and finally he, "at last" there you are.  There you are, the one I've been dreaming of.  This was a big deal.
They don't make it a big deal out of it in the King James.  Because Adam says, "This is flesh of my flesh."  NO, exclamation point, "at last!"  finally!  This is it!  Yes!  My woman! 
Emphatically the emotion is expressed in that word 'now.' 
Seven other translations got it right. 
Doesn't that convey something of joy in the heart of God.

When Paul comes along and says this very thing we're talking about, he's talking about Christ and the church.
You see it's a great spiritual lesson, this union of a husband and a wife, what it should be.  How a husband should love a wife and how a wife should love a husband.  I mean really love each other dearly.
This is how Christ loves the church, and died for it.
Just as the husband and wife become one flesh, God wants to be that intimate with humanity, like one flesh.

John 10:30  "I and the Father are one!"

They're not the same person, but 'one,' there's a difference.
But one, same spirit, same mind, same attitude, same character, same power, same strength, same wisdom, same purpose, they are one.
And that's what God wants us to be with Him, that close, one.

It's a spiritual thing He's making here.  We think that it's a physical thing, we have physical life, and die a physical death, and then it's all over.  No.
This creation represents a spiritual creation.  It's not finished yet, and when we die it's not finished. 
If it were, we could just pack up our books and go home.  No purpose in me sitting up here trying to teach something, just go home and watch a football game.

Now He doesn't want this just for the elect, though He calls out the elect first, but it's for everyone.

1Tim 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
v. 4  who WILL [Gk. Thelo- 'to determine, wish, desire, intend, have rather, will, willing, willingly'] have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The Theologians of the church say that He wishes or desires that and that He doesn't get His desires.  Sorry I know you want it, but you can't have it God.  Sorry Adam I know you want the woman, and to be one flesh and intimate and loving, I'm sorry you don't get her.  That what the Theologians say to God. 
Oh You want humanity to be at one with You, nice try, it'll never happen God.
They say that the Greek word 'thelo' for 'will,' in verse 4, is a weak wish, a desire. 

Already 2 lies.
1) Anything that God desires He gets.
It's not such a thing as a blasphemous weak wish with God.  I mean come on, God doesn't have weak wishes.  Strong wishes that come about, mediocre ones that sometimes do, and weak ones that never get done. 
I mean this was not a weak wish with God.  It was not a weak wish that Adam have a woman, that he could hug and love and be at one with.  It was not a weak wish, it was very strong and when it happened it was like, WOW thank you Lord.

So when she did the wrong thing, he said I'm going with her.  I'm not going to leave that woman behind, where she goes I'm going, that's my baby.
He's not leaving her behind.  Oh, you sinned, your on your own, go to hell.  What?  Is that what Adam said?  Did Adam say, Eve you stupid female, you sinned so go to hell?  No, he said I'll go with you, I'll die with you, I love you. 
Can you see why somebody dies for somebody else.  He proved his love for Eve, when he said I'll eat it too.  He wasn't deceived, he knew what it would do, he knew.  He did it anyway, that's how much he loved her.

That's how much Christ loves the church and everyone.  His will is that everyone be saved.  And they said that the word 'thelo' means wish or desire.  So I wanted to knock that in the head.

So 1 was if it's a wish, God gets all His wishes.  God said, "I will do all My pleasure." (Isa. 46:10)  It's not like when God wants something He can't get it.  What does He think He is, God?  Yes, He gets whatever He wants.  That's why He is God.

2) Thelo does mean will, an absolute must happen.

1.  Matt. 15:32 "... And I will [Gk. Thelo] not send them away fasting..."
Remember they were following Christ and they were famished, ready to fall by the wayside.  Christ said we need to eat, they said we have nothing to eat Lord, send them home.  He said, "I will not."  the word is thelo, do you really believe Jesus Christ said I desire not to send them away fasting, but maybe I will?  That's blasphemy.  The church blasphemies the Word of God up one side and down the other.
When He said, "I will not send them away fasting."  He had no intention in any way, shape, or form, that He would let those people go back to the city without anything to eat.

2.  Matt. 20:31 "...I will [Gk. Thelo] give unto this last...."
That's as absolute promise there.  That will happen.  But it's the word thelo there.  The Theologians say is a weak wish.

3.  Acts 7:30 "...our fathers would [Gk. Thelo] not obey..."
They just wished not to obey?  Is that what that's telling us?  That the Israelites, the father of old, they wished not to obey?  But actually then they wished to obey, but wouldn't.  That's absolute.

4.  1 Cor. 16:7 "For I will [Gk. Thelo] not see you now.
Is Paul telling these people that he loves them so dearly, but I don't want to see you, I don't wish to see you now?  Can in your wildest imagination believe he was telling them, that I don't wish to see you now?  I don't have a desire to see you now? 
The word is thelo, "I will not see you now."  But that was not a good thing, it was a sad thing.  But it was a fact that he wouldn't see them, now.  It wasn't his desire not to see them, that's stupid.  His desire was to see them.  But the word is thelo, it's not a weak wish.

5.  Phil. 2:13 "...to will [Gk. Thelo] and to do..."
He works in you both to wish and to do, but it's a weak wish, that maybe it won't come about?  There is no "to do."

6.  11 Thes. 3:10 "...if any would [Gk. Thelo] not work
Now listen to this, is Paul saying if somebody doesn't desire to work he shouldn't eat?  Is that what he's saying?  How many people desire to work?  No one.  No one should eat then, nobody wants to get up on Monday morning and go to work.  No, he will not eat, if any would not work.  I mean absolutely would not work, then he should not eat either.  It doesn't say if he wishes not to work he couldn't eat, because nobody would eat.

7.  11 Tim. 2:12 "if we suffer...will [Gk. Thelo] deny us."
He wishes to deny us?  He desires to deny us?  No, He will.  The word is thelo, what Theologians say is a weak wish only.  No, it's a fact.

I just showed you 7 scriptures, where it can be nothing but an absolute fact.  So thelo was not a weak, and even if it were a desire, if it's God's desire it would happen any way. 
They lie, God will save all humanity.

[YellowStone]

Thanks my dear sister Kathy,

Where would we be without you?

No where as close as we are now, that's for sure.

Love in Christ,
Darren

[iris]

Kat,

Thank you so much for taking the time
to transcribe this talk.

Bless you!!!


Iris

[Kat]

Hi Darren and iris,

I feel it is my pleasure.  That God would use me in such a way is an amazing thing to me.
We will be blessed to have another transcript on 'Repentance' from a google video, that someone has just provided.  It is really good. 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat