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Author Topic: Crazy e-mail  (Read 2872 times)

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SandyFla

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Crazy e-mail
« on: March 02, 2007, 04:24:00 PM »

RAY:
DON'T EXPECT A REPLY. I JUST BELIEVE YOU WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR SENDING SOME GOOD CHRISTIANS TO HELL. I AM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. JUST LIKE JESUS SAID I SHOULD BE. I SEE WHEN YOUR ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION. YOU TAKE A HUNDRED WORDS TO REPLY WHEN A YES OR NO WOULD SURFICE. I OWE MY EVERYTHING TO GOD. NOT JUST A TITHE AND YES I WILL KEEP TITHING JUST AS THE KING JAMES ASKED ME TO DO. I PRAY THAT YOU WILL STOP DESTROYING THE WORD OF GOD.
LLOYD

Dear Lloyd:
Are you crazy?  Seriously, ARE YOU CRAZY?  What kind of a god do you worship? Surely not the God of the Holy Scriptures. Do you really believe in your heart of hearts that Almight God is powerless to stop some stupid false prophet fool (as you suppose me to be) from sending His "Christian" (Christ like? LIKE CHRIST HIMSELF?) Children to some eternal hellwhole of torture in fire?  Are you suggesting that one human being can THWART the very will of God and cause another human to lose his eternal salvation?  Every day and in every way, I just marvel at how utterly sick and damnable are the Unscriptural Doctrines of Christiandom!!
Sincerely,
Ray


When I read this, the first thing that came to my mind was how this makes Lloyd (and others like him) appear to be more caring and loving than God.

Lloyd is trying to stop Ray from causing Christians to lose their salvation and end up burning forever in hell. Yet, God, who can do EVERYTHING, won't stop him, but will let Ray continue misleading His children until they are forever lost. Why would God do such a thing? Why does Lloyd care more about God's children than God does?

What happened to "No one can pluck them from my hand" (John 10:28-29)? Does Lloyd really think Ray is able to do what God says CANNOT be done??? Obviously he does. How sad ...

Sandy
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dogcombat

  • Guest
Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2007, 04:41:34 PM »

The carnal mind can NEVER accept the Truths of God.  But fear not, the elect won't be plucked from God's hands.  The writer/ranter did what the usual detractor(s) do when emailing Ray,

1. They don't bother to READ ANY OF Ray's papers on the site.  And if they do, it's only a glance because they DON'T like to think for themselves.  In other words, unless Christiandom TELLS them what to think, they won't.

2.  Because they don't read, they CAN'T quote 1 statement in any of the papers that prove Ray was wrong. 

Ray's writings are what Holy Spirit revealed to Him as God led "comparing spiritual things with spiritual".  That is the main reason some questions can't be answered in a "Yes or No".  Since only God can give one the mind of Christ to discern His truths, a hundred words often is the beginning to an in depth study led by Holy Spirit.  Those who have not been called to understand God's truths won't GET IT anyway.  In time, God will indeed, show detractors like Lloyd that He is the "Savior of the WHOLE WORLD". 

Ches
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SandyFla

  • Guest
Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2007, 04:56:23 PM »

Amen, Ches.

I was reading from Romans chapter 3 to my mom the other night (she is legally--and spiritually--blind). She likes the KJV. Here's what it says in verses 22-24:

22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Verse 22 says God's righteousness is to all AND all that believe, separating the all (unbelievers included) from all the believers. Notice the next part: "For there is no difference."

What happens in verse 24? We are ALL being justified! :)

I asked my mom, if all are justified, how can they spend eternity in hell? She was very quiet and I left it at that.

Sandy
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PKnowler

  • Guest
Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2007, 05:47:39 PM »

Wow, that's a powerful scripture Sandy! I don't know that I've looked into that scripture before. The Bible has become a whole new book to me though since learning the truths from Ray's site. It is awesome to find these nuggets throughout scriptures!

Thank you for sharing that email to Ray. It is a great illustration revealing the delusion and deception of Babylon contrasted with the truth of God's Sovereignty. I just love how Ray presents these truths so clearly!

Bless You!  :)
~Paula
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LittleBear

  • Guest
Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2007, 06:06:18 PM »

It's sad, Sandy. It's like Lloyd's god is  powerless to save those that Ray is misleading. And as you say, not as loving as he, Lloyd is. Maybe Lloyd can change god's mind if he prays long and hard enough. That kind of belief is so confusing.

Ursula
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iris

  • Guest
Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2007, 06:08:47 PM »

Sandy, Those were great scriptures. My way of thinking has changed so much since finding
Bible-truths, and finding out that all will be saved.

I loved the way Ray answered Lloyd, "Are you crazy? Seriously, ARE YOU CRAZY?..."  ;D  ;D  ;D


Iris

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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2007, 08:09:13 PM »

Ches

What you wrote here is a reminder that not many can see or hear because God does not want many to see or hear at this time and in fulfillment of the scriptures for when Christ returns into a dark faithless world with few if any to be found in faith.

Those who have not been called to understand God's truths won't GET IT anyway.  In time, God will indeed, show detractors like Lloyd that He is the "Savior of the WHOLE WORLD".

When He comes again the contrast between dark and light is going to be dazzling!....

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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skydreamers

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Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2007, 10:07:31 PM »

Man, it is just so mind-boggling to try and understand how and why God blinds certain people and gives truth to others.  I still haven't figured out why God saw fit to show me the truths that he has since I feel so completely undeserving. 

I really feel bad for the people who are in darkness about the salvation of all.  It's really a horrible place to be:  to worry and fret anxiously over loved ones who may end up burning or annihilated.  What strikes me though, is some of these people who write these emails seem to actually revel and gloat in the idea of an eternally burning hell. 

Remember that email from that guy who said he couldn't wait to watch child molesters burn and he actually imagined himself enjoying it and sitting back eating popcorn (or something like that!).  I mean, how bizarre that a person would actually think such things!!  I never believed in eternal hellfire, but rather annihilatiion, and I still thought that was horrible and couldn't stand the thought of possibly being without the ones I have come to know and love.

I'm so thankful I know the truth!

Peace, Diana 
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rick

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Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2007, 11:15:23 PM »

I thank God also for opening my eyes to the truth. the only problem I have now is the lonliness of it because my friends still would rather believe a lie........rick
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DWIGHT

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Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2007, 12:25:50 AM »

All I can say when I see something like this is, we our so at the mercy of the Lord.  Diana, you're right, why me Lord?

Dwight
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dogcombat

  • Guest
Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2007, 10:27:50 AM »

Diana & Rick,

From 1 Corinthians 1, which illustrates what Diana mentioned about not being worthy to know His truths (But we are humbled that He has)

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

This confirms that God reveals His truths to those whom He has chosen. The least of us.

Quote
Remember that email from that guy who said he couldn't wait to watch child molesters burn and he actually imagined himself enjoying it and sitting back eating popcorn (or something like that!).  I mean, how bizarre that a person would actually think such things!!  I never believed in eternal hellfire, but rather annihilatiion, and I still thought that was horrible and couldn't stand the thought of possibly being without the ones I have come to know and love.
Quote

I do, and I recall Proverbs 24

17 Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:

 18 Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him.

 19 Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked:

 20 For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.

 21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:

 22 For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both?

 23 These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment.

 24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou are righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:

 25 But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.

Vengeance DEFINITELY belongs to the Lord.  For as Sandy has posted the verses that prove ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. 

God be with you
Ches

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Pax Vobiscum

  • Guest
Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2007, 11:09:11 AM »

RAY:
DON'T EXPECT A REPLY. I JUST BELIEVE YOU WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR SENDING SOME GOOD CHRISTIANS TO HELL. I AM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. JUST LIKE JESUS SAID I SHOULD BE. I SEE WHEN YOUR ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION. YOU TAKE A HUNDRED WORDS TO REPLY WHEN A YES OR NO WOULD SURFICE. I OWE MY EVERYTHING TO GOD. NOT JUST A TITHE AND YES I WILL KEEP TITHING JUST AS THE KING JAMES ASKED ME TO DO. I PRAY THAT YOU WILL STOP DESTROYING THE WORD OF GOD.
LLOYD

Dear Lloyd:
Are you crazy?  Seriously, ARE YOU CRAZY?  What kind of a god do you worship? Surely not the God of the Holy Scriptures. Do you really believe in your heart of hearts that Almight God is powerless to stop some stupid false prophet fool (as you suppose me to be) from sending His "Christian" (Christ like? LIKE CHRIST HIMSELF?) Children to some eternal hellwhole of torture in fire?  Are you suggesting that one human being can THWART the very will of God and cause another human to lose his eternal salvation?  Every day and in every way, I just marvel at how utterly sick and damnable are the Unscriptural Doctrines of Christiandom!!
Sincerely,
Ray

Please don't read my words as Ray-bashing, but out of fairness to all believers I am compelled to shine light from a different angle.

While poor Lloyd needs help from at least a theologian (let alone a grammarian!), Ray's answer is not an answer.  Please, before you hit the ejector button...

Ray's answer here may have been written in haste.  But I hear him saying that, "...if my message is wrong, do you not think that God would stop me?"  So we must conclude that Ray's message has God's approval.  This is very, very bad.  This is the argument used by OT Jews, Spanish Inquisitors, Crusaders, the Holy Roman Church, Islam, Jim Jones' People's Temple and countless other movements of which I hold in some degree of doubt.  

God has has not smote (smitten? smoted?  smitified? smotooned?) Buddhists, Satanists, or Hollywood for leading His children astray, has He?  Are we not all God's children?  God allows all these things to occur for whatever is His reason (personally, I can't wait to hear His response).

Let's put this in Ray-speak:  Ray has been given the opportunity to spread information and spiritual guidance that is in conflict with orthodox Christianity.  Orthodox Christianity spreads its message of "damnable heresies" to the world and yet it continues to flourish.  Using Ray's answer above: "[D]o you really believe in your heart of hearts that Almight [sic] God is powerless to stop some stupid false prophet fool..." such as the orthodox Christian community?   Of course an orthodox Christian can turn this claim around and make the same statement about Ray.  It is a null argument.

The other bothersome thing is the good old, "If not A, then B" argument (very popular with the Darwin vs. Evolution folks).  Honestly, all of us fall into the trap of "If I can 'prove' you wrong, then I am right."  A momentary victory at best; but hardly something upon which to wager one's eternal soul!

Peace
« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 11:11:47 AM by Pax Vobiscum »
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gmik

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Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2007, 11:28:45 AM »

I see what you mean Pax.  But I didn't take it that way when I first read it.  These people assume that (in their lingo) if born-again, God loving & fearing, tither, etc I come to this site and say Oh, thats interesting maybe there isn't a hell, that and that alone will indeed send me to hell?  I thought Ray was just saying Hey, I can't send or not send, even if you think I am a false prophet or telling the truth, how small/big is YOUR god??  I didn't see the A/B argument.

Personally, I wish Ray would just shut down his e mail site and write his papers and of course send us his tapes from his bible study!  I know I am being greedy, but the e mails are so repetitive; and I don't know how he stands up to all that hatred.

Pax, your posts are always good for thought and it doesn't hurt us to think of the different angles.
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Craig

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  • There are two kinds of cops.The quick and the dead
Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2007, 11:30:05 AM »

Blee,

I see your point and am in no way trying to lessen it. Because your point is valid, and I wonder if humanity has lost their mind?

But I don't think your point was the intention Ray meant to leave.

Maybe because I've talked to Ray and gotten to know him a bit, I can see where he is going with that statement.  He has a very keen since of discernment of a emailers intention, and knows that debate with some certain people would be useless.  I think in most cases like this he only hopes to make a person, maybe...m  a  y  b  e, stop and consider the foolishness of their statement, with a foolish statement of his own.

Blessings

Craig
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PKnowler

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Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2007, 11:56:14 AM »

Hi Pax,

   I would like to comment on your post and tell you the way that I see it. When I first read Ray's response I thought, just because God doesn't stop Ray doesn't necessarily make Ray right. There are many false teachings out there that God allows to continue.

I think the point Ray is making is about God's sovereignty. Can a mere man fowl up God's plans? At the very least, if a man could damn people or thwart God's plan because of his teaching then God, in His sovereignty, would take him out so the Will of God would stand.

But Christiandom doesn't think like this because they think their salvation comes from the decision of man. Ray is just pointing out the foolishness of that way of thinking.

Just 2cents worth  :)
~Paula
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TimothyVI

  • Guest
Re: Crazy e-mail
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2007, 03:08:56 PM »

That was a good observation Pax, but I think that Ray was clearly stating
that one human being can not THWART the very will of God and cause another human to lose his eternal salvation.

This is absolutely correct. I know that Christendom believes that the supposed "free will" of man can thwart God's will for
his own salvation. But even in the minds of christendom,
no mere mortal can take that salvation away from another person.

Tim

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