> General Discussions
Plans for a chip implant.
mrsnacks:
--- Quote from: Kent on April 20, 2007, 04:43:41 PM ---^^ Me too. I'll eat grubs and wear grass skirts before anyone sticks me with a chip.
--- End quote ---
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The only chip I will let them stick me with is a potato chip.
Jackie Lee:
What I haven't figured out yet is no one can buy or sell without the mark?
So to be able to recieve a paycheck does one have to have an identifying mark?
It seems so.
I would appreciate anyone that would explain and enlighten me.
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Jackie Lee on May 06, 2007, 02:37:21 PM ---What I haven't figured out yet is no one can buy or sell without the mark?
So to be able to recieve a paycheck does one have to have an identifying mark?
It seems so.
I would appreciate anyone that would explain and enlighten me.
--- End quote ---
Hi Jackie Lee,
Remember the Book of Revelation is a book of symbols, here is a portion from; Lake of Fire Part 1
http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html
Beginning in verse twelve John starts to tell us what he sees and heard,
"And I turned to see the voice that spake with me ... his eyes were as a flame of fire, and his feet like unto fine brass ... And he had in his right hand seven stars and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword..."
NONE of what I underlined is literal. Have you ever "seen a voice?" All these things are symbols that stand for other things. And God immediately gives us proof positive of this in verse 20,
"The mystery [this is not literal--it was a mystery until God tells us that one thing really means or represents another and DIFFERENT THING] of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars ARE THE ANGELS OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest ARE THE SEVEN CHURCHES."
The stars are not literal and the candlesticks are not literal. In the first 20 verses of Revelation we can find eleven statements that are not literal, but rather symbolic. They represent truths that are presented in symbols. The literal language is not the literal truth being presented. The statements themselves do not teach us the truth OF the statements. We must look elsewhere in the Scriptures for the interpretation.
Now chapter one was pretty easy as God told us just what some of those symbols represented. But there are dozens and dozens of more symbols in this book of Revelation that are not explained in the immediate verses that follow. How shall we understand all those symbols. First of all, without the spirit of God, the answer is we will never understand these symbols. But guided by God’s spirit, God can show us in other places in His Word what these mysterious symbols represent. It is God Who provides us with "ears to hear and eyes to see."
Now look at chapter two:
Verse 5, Will God literally punish the church of Ephesus by removing a literal candlestick? NO! Removing a literal candlestick would be no great loss to anyone. But from what we learned in verse 20 of chapter one, the candlestick IS one of the churches . So Christ is threatening to REMOVE THE WHOLE CHURCH, not some piece of furniture or candlestick from the building of a church.
Verse 7, Is the tree of life a literal tree that one literally eats?
Verse 9, Was the church in Smyrna literally in poverty and literally rich at the same time? Does "synagogue of Satan" mean a literal synagogue where Satan has a Rabbi teaching the Law to a congregation every Sabbath day?
Verse 13, Is a name something that one literally holds fast to with one’s hands?
Verse 16, Will Christ literally do battle by using a literal sword which He literally keeps in His mouth? Or do we not read in another place in God’s word that this "sword" IS God’s Word? (Heb. 4:12).
Verse 17, Will Christ reward the faithful with a literal little white stone? Can’t we see that the stone and the name written in it represents something else? Something of much greater value?
Verse 20, Was the harlot Jezebel literally in the Thyatira church? Literal Jezebel died CENTURIES before this book was written by John. Jezebel in the physical represents or symbolizes a SPIRITUAL condition in the church of Thyatira.
Verse 22, Will Christ literally throw literal Jezebel into a literal bed where she will literally commit adultery with literal men?
Verse 23, Will Christ kill literal children of the literal harlot, Jezebel?
Verse 27, Will the saints beat the nations with a literal rod of iron into literal small pieces like broken pottery?
Verse 28, Will Christ give the literal morning star to His saints? Where would they put it? What would they do with it?
Chapter 3:1, Was the Sardis church literally alive and literally dead at the same time?
Verse 4, Were members of the Sardis congregation wearing literally soiled clothing?
Verse 7, Is there literally a metal key of David that is needed to open a literal lock?
Verse 12, Will Christ literally turn people into stone pillars in the temple?
Verse 16, Will Christ literally spit the church of Laodocia out of His mouth?
Verse 17, Were the members of the Laodocian church literally poor and literally blind and literally naked without clothing to wear? Are there not other Scriptures that tell us what it means to be SPIRITUALLY "poor, blind, and naked?"
Verse 18, Did Christ try to sell Laodocia literal gold? What would they do with the gold? What, pray tell, would Christ do with the money?
Verse 20, Does Christ literally knock at the doors of our homes and then come in and eat a literal home cooked meal and pecan pie with us?
Is it necessary for me to go through this entire book verse by verse before we can fully realize that this book is written in figurative, symbolic, and metaphoric language?
Let’s look at just a few more:
Chapter 4, Was a literal trumpet "talking" with John?
Chapter 5, Is Jesus Christ literally a "Lion," an "animal?"
Chapter 6, Are these literal "horses?" Do the literal stars of heaven fall on the earth? The smallest known stars are a million times larger than the earth.
Chapter 7, Were angels literally holding back four "winds" on four literal "corners" of the earth? I thought the earth is round without corners? Can one literally wash his clothes "white" in red "blood?"
Chapter 8, Will an angel cast a literal mountain burning with fire into the sea?
Chapter 9, During the fifth trumpet will it literally be impossible for mortal men to die?
Will there be literal locusts shaped like "horses?" Locusts that literally have "hair like a woman, teeth like a lion, and breastplates of iron?" LOCUSTS with breastplates of "iron?"
Chapter 10, Did John eat a literal book? That was literally sweet in his taste buds, but literally bitter in his stomach? Why would anyone "eat" a literal book?
Chapter 11, Are God’s two witnesses that prophecy, literally two olive trees and two candlesticks? But if we study Zechariah 4 we can determine what is meant by "two witnesses."
Chapter 12, Will there literally be a pregnant woman "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars?" Was this same woman able to literally "fly into the wilderness with wings of an eagle?"
Chapter 13, Will there be a literal lamb that will speak like a dragon? Just how do dragons "speak" anyhow?
Will people be literally tattooed with marks (bar codes, swastikas, Social Security numbers, implanted with computer chips or one of a hundred unscriptural marks being suggested by fundamentalist prophets) in their hands and on their foreheads so that men cannot buy or sell ice cream or automobiles without these marks? Self-appointed prophets of doom haven’t a clue as to what this mark of the beast really is or the number of his name. I have already been bared from buying and selling recently because I refuse to brandish this "mark of the beast"!
Chapter 14, Does Babylon cause all nations to literally drink of the wine of the literal wrath of her fornication? I thought wine came from grapes not wrath (of course there is that famous novel, The Grapes of Wrath).
Chapter 15, Are the seven last global plagues and catastrophes really contained in seven literal tiny gold vials or bottles?
Chapter 16, Is Jesus Christ going to return to this earth as a literal "thief"? Will every island and mountain on earth literally disappear?
Chapter 17, Will there really be a women who will ride a literal scarlet coloured beast, having seven heads and ten horns. Can whole nations literally fornicate with a harlot? But here once more in this chapter God does reveal to us who this beast is and what the symbolic horns represent which again proves that ALL OF THESE THINGS are not literal but symbolic and represent things other than what is being described.
Chapter 18, Will the entire social, political, and economic system of the world literally collapse in just one hour because one literal city (Babylon) is destroyed?
Chapter 19, Will a literal prostitute "corrupt" the entire earth? Will a literal "lamb" marry a literal "wife?" Will the King of the universe really wear clothing dripping with literal "blood?" Is God’s wrath a literal "winepress?" Will literal armies of heaven follow Christ to earth riding on literal "flying horses?" No, NONE of these things are literal!
Any theologian or preacher on international television would be laughed to scorn if he were to preach a sermon trying to prove that all of the above Scriptures are to be taken absolutely literally. Such a sermon would be seen as foolish by nearly everyone. No educated man in the Word of God would ever dare to present anything so STUPID!
And yet ... and YET, when we come to verse 20: will a literal beast and a literal false prophet be cast alive into a literal "lake of fire burning with brimstone?" How do these same theologians and preachers answer? They answer: "Yes, of course they will be thrown into a literal lake of fire, because THIS IS LITERAL."
Chapter 20, Will the devil, the false prophet and the beast be cast into a literal lake of fire and be literally tortured day and night "FOR EVER AND EVER"?
And will all those not found written in the book of life be cast into a literal lake of fire? Answer: "Yes, THIS TOO IS LITERAL, ABSOLUTELY LITERAL," shouts our fundamentalist friends once more.
Chapter 21, And will the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, be cast into a literal "lake of fire burning with brimstone?" "Yes, Yes, A THOUSAND TIMES YES, THIS IS SOOO LITERAL, ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY LITERAL" shouts every red-blooded fundamentalist worth his salt!
Amazing. Absolutely amazing--the power of the carnal mind to self-deceive. Why are fundamentalists totally sure that these verses on a lake of fire are literal? Well, of course, they aren't sure; they just pretend to be sure. They desire with their whole heart and being that this lake of fire is real fire. Why? Because the eternal torture of billions of men and women and boys and girls in some fabled hellhole doesn’t "diminish" them one iota! They want people who don’t believe as they believe to have their flesh barbecued over fire and brimstone for all eternity. The very idea gives them great joy. And it makes them proud. They have no love for sinners as God does. They hate sinners. They hate unbelievers. They love only themselves. They pronounce CURSES on me for quoting Scriptures that show God will save everyone. They highly disapprove of God being the saviour of the whole world. The won’t hear of it; they won’t have it! They don’t approve of a God Who would save everyone by bringing them to repentance, and purging them, and turning their hearts to God. If God were to save everyone through the purging of his SPIRITUAL FIRE, then they could not wag their fingers at all these people sizzling and popping like bacon in a hit skillet saying, "I told you so, I told you so..." for all eternity. Hussein and Bin Laden are not the only ones out there with depraved religious minds.
God did not write nineteen whole chapters of Revelation giving us symbol after symbol and metaphor after metaphor, and then in chapter 20 switch to writing in literal language with literal meanings.
The book of Revelation was "signified" by the use of signs and symbols. Signs and symbols always represent or mean something other than the sign or symbol itself. We are all familiar with symbols and signs so that we should never be confused as to what a sign or symbol is or is not. A red and white striped barber’s pole is not a barber shop, neither is it a barber, but it is a sign or symbol that immediately conveys to our understanding what it represents--namely a barber shop with a barber.
There are many more Scriptures that will prove that this lake of fire has a much more benevolent purpose than barbecuing human flesh for all eternity for the sheer sick and depraved entertainment of Christian Fundamentalists.
Be it known however, that the lake of fire and the second death DO INDEED picture something spiritual that relates to or has some properties of, LITERAL FIRE and LITERAL DEATH. Without some similar properties, the metaphor would be meaningless. I have read some extremely complex definitions of a metaphor which were totally wrong. A metaphor is where one thing is said to BE something else. Here’s a Scriptural example: "All flesh is grass" (I Pet. 1:24). That’s simple enough. Now then, is that statement by Peter true? Yes, of course, it is true. Is it literally true? No, it is not literally true. Then how do we know for sure what there is ABOUT this metaphor that is true? If a metaphor is not literally true, how is it true at all?
hillsbororiver:
Hello again Jackie,
Here is a portion from Lake of Fire Part 8; http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html
JESUS GOES TO CHURCH
Perhaps you never thought of Jesus going to Church, but He did. The first time that something is mentioned in Scripture, it is often very instructive. Although it was the habit of Jesus to attend local synagogues during His life, the first time the Scriptures mention Jesus going to the temple as a adult is in Matt. 21:12:
"And they came to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to CAST OUT them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And He taught, saying unto them, ‘Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the House of Prayer? But ye have made it a DEN OF THIEVES [Gk: ‘burglars’ cave’].’ And the SCRIBES and CHIEF PRIESTS heard it, and sought how they might DESTROY HIM: for they feared Him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine" (Mark 11:15-18).
What a revelation of the church of God we have in these three verses!
Jesus was so angry with the leaders at the temple for turning it into a money-making flea market, that he:
"cast out them that sold and bought in the temple"
"overthrew the tables of the moneychangers and seats of them that sold doves"
"suffered no one to carry vessels [of merchandise] through the temple"
Jesus said that they "made the House of Prayer a DEN OF THIEVES"!
Say, did you notice that they were buying and selling "…in the Temple?" Do you think that just maybe this has anything to do with the fact that,
"…NO MAN might BUY OR SELL, save he that had the MARK OR THE NAME OF THE BEAST, or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME" (Rev. 13:17)?
We will cover the Mark of the Beast in a later installment.
But this is all ancient history, isn’t it? The modern Church of God has not been turned into a "den of thieves" has it? Were the High priests and Scribes, going against the law of either their own religious beliefs or of Rome? No. No, they weren’t. So they were not "thieves" according to the Church or the Roman government. But were they thieves, nonetheless? Yes, they were, Jesus Christ SAID THEY WERE THIEVES, a whole "DEN OF THIEVES"!
At least the modern Church of God is not a "den of thieves," is it? I’m sure not all; you can be the judge:
One of the major factors in the Reformation was the disdain over the practice of the Church selling INDULGENCES. The American Heritage College Dictionary, "indulgence n. 6. Roman Catholic Church The remission of temporal punishment still due for a sin that has been sacramentally absolved."
Make no mistake about it:
"For the love of money is the [Gk. ‘a’] root of all evil" (I Tim. 6:10).
Before the Reformation, it was thought that one could practically "buy" one’s salvation.
Jesus "CAST OUT them that sold and bought in the temple." Is there, "buying and selling" going on in the Church today? Excuse me…does a cat have a tail?
Now don’t think that I am against money. Jesus Himself used money in his ministry (but he never sold in the temple, neither did He ever collect a penny in tithe money).
I couldn’t count the number of e-mails I have received in response to my article on tithing being unscriptural under the new covenant, in which they ask how they should pay their church utility bill if the people don’t tithe? I tell them to pay it with a check backed by money in the bank. All those interested in paying the utility bill should contribute voluntary offerings of money for that expense. This is not difficult. But no one under the New Covenant is obligated by law or conscience to pay ten percent of their salaries to a church! People under the Old Covenant, likewise, were not under law to pay ten percent of their salaries to the Levites. And, Yes, they did have money back then.
UNSCRUPULOUS PEDDLERS OF GOD’S WORD
After Jesus THREW OUT those who "bought and sold" in the temple, did they ever return? Not only did they return to the temple after Christ’s resurrection, but they also came into the very Church, which Jesus said HE WOULD BUILD. The whole temple system in Jerusalem was so utterly corrupt that they corrupted the people of Jerusalem and Judea as well.
In and around 70 AD the armies of Titus surrounded Jerusalem and there was an awful slaughter. You can read of these horrible events in the writings of Josephus. But even before the temple with its corrupt religious system was demolished, it had already spread its ugly tentacles into the Church which Jesus built.
Jackie Lee:
Thanks for coming to my rescue I have lots of reading and studing to do.
I am really glad this chip is not literal, Like I said though I really need to take some quiet time and study and hoping My ears and eyes are opened.
Thanks again, Jackie
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