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Author Topic: Is God closed trinity  (Read 6058 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

iris

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2007, 09:47:54 PM »

Hi Kat,

Thanks for the work you have put out on categorizing the emails.

May god be with you in this process.


 :)
Iris
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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2007, 09:52:08 PM »

Kat,

  If you get lost.  We will come looking for you in the tangled halls of the e-mails.


  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire
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TimothyVI

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2007, 08:15:33 AM »



Hi Tim,

Joh 4:24  God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

Most translations do not use a spirit any more, because God is not limited to being a spirit.
He is spirit and invisible, but He is everywhere at the same time, omnipresent.
This might sound like I am nit picking, but just wanted to clear up He is not a spirit  :)

mercy, peace, and love


Nit pick away Kat. It helps me to look more closely at each word in scriptures, and try to discern their meaning. ;D

Tim
Kat


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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2007, 04:06:19 PM »



As a previously indoctrinated brain washed and deceived Catholic….what completely thoroughly nailed into the correct perspective about the Trinity heresy was this found under L. Ray Smith e-mails 17 …..

Remember that Paul said we no longer know Christ according to the flesh. And Christ never appeared to the Apostles after Pentecost IN THE FLESH. Christ went back to the Father, but He said He would not leave us comfortless, but that He would send a comforter. He also said that it would be the "spirit of truth" and that it came TO Christ from the Father and now it IS CHRIST'S to do as He will with it.
Then who or what is this comforter, this 'parakletos'?  God's Word tells us. John is the only writer who uses this word 'parakletos.' So where else does he use it?  I John 2:1:
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.  And if any man sin, we have an advocate [Greek: PARAKLETOS!!!] with the Father, JESUS CHRIST the Righteous" (I John 2:1)!!!
There it is! Jesus Christ IS THE COMFORTER. Jesus Christ IS THE PARAKLETOS!






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RTA

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2007, 10:47:10 PM »

I've read the article of Ray on the "closed Trinity or expanding Family" and was thinking about Isaiah: 9:6 where it says:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

In the light of Ray's insights in the above mentioned article, what do you(anyone here) think about this verse?

Quote
The way I understand it is that the Holy Spirit is not a separate “person” in a trinity but rather the Holy Spirit is the essence of who God is.  After all what made Christ “the image of the invisible God”? It was the Spirit of God or the fullness of God that dwelled in Him that made the fleshly form of Jesus God.

I quoted this from Sj's posting, for maybe it might shed some light on my question... could Isaiah 9:6 refer to the indwelling fullness of the Father, which gives the child(the Son) referred to in Isaiah 9:6 the name "everlasting Father"? (and "mighty G'd")...
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 10:49:02 PM by RTA »
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2007, 12:25:47 AM »


Hi RTA,

Here is an email that ask about this same thing in Isa. 9:6.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1809.0.html -------------

Ray

I just re-read your paper on the trinity. I agree with it. I do have a question. I copied and pasted the below from your paper.....

(Five, since Christ is the Son, He cannot also be the Father or be coequal with His Father. Christ plainly said:)

You say, He cannot also be the Father. In Isa. Jesus is called everlasting Father. Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

How can you say Jesus cannot be the Father?

Rick


Dear Rick:
The Hebrew does not exactly read as most Versions translate it. Here is the Hebrew of this verse from an Interlinear:

"the-chieftainship-of   on   sholder-blade-of-him   and-he-shall-be-called   name-of-him   Marvelous   one counseling   to   master   father-of-future   chief-of   welfare"

And so, rather than "being" the "father of the future" or "father of futurity," Jesus was to be the one here on earth counseling in behalf "of" the: Master; Father of futurity; and Chief of welfare (James 1:17).

I would not base my salvation on the proper translation of this verse. Here is how the Concordant Old Testament renders it:

" For a Boy is born to us; a Son is given to us, and the chieftainship shall come to be on His shoulder, and His name is called 'Marvelous.Counsel to the master shall He bring, to the chief of the future, welfare.'"
God be with you,
Ray
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helped.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2007, 12:26:58 AM »

Lisa,

  You are most certainly welcome, I am still learning as well.  Thanks for admitting that.  I hope that we never reach a place where the learning stops.

  Thanks so much.

  Sincerely,





  Anne C. McGuire
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Andreas

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2007, 01:59:22 PM »

Dear friends,
About the Holy Spirit, if it is an Holy Spirit, it means for me that it is also bad spirits. I believe that it is a difference between the Old testament and The New Testament.
In the Old Testament The spirit of God is god self.
In the New Testament, The Holy Spirit is send by Christ for the believers, in opposition of the bad spirits.
God bless you all
Andreas
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Redbird

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2007, 05:26:29 PM »

Just wanted to say welcome to the forum Andreas.

Lisa
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2007, 06:01:28 PM »

Yes, Hi Andreas.  Good to meet ya.
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RTA

  • Guest
Re: Is God closed trinity
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2007, 05:01:57 PM »

Thanks Kat for sharing the link!

I've emailed Ray about this theme too and he gave me the following answer, I'll bring it in here...(I just quote the question and reply):

Question:
You know the verse in Isaiah 9:6;
 
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The mighty G'd, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
 
In the light of what you already explained in the above mentioned article, could you please make me understand how to understand this verse? for here it seems(?) that the child's(the Son's) name is called "Mighty G'd" and (even) "everlasting Father".
I see clearly that the Father is not the Son(for He is the Image of the invisible G'd), though they are one.
so my question is:
 
Now why, when He is NOT the Father, He(the Son) is called "everlasting Father"?
 
answer:
I answered this same question for someone a couple of days ago, but I don't have my reply.
Jesus was the God of the Old Testament. And although He is the  "Son of GOD," He was also
a "Father" to Israel (Isaiah 63:16;  Jer. 31:9;  Ex. 4:22; etc.) The word "everlasting" is a word that stands for the "future," no "everlasting.
 
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