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Author Topic: Exposing Christian Doctrine  (Read 4476 times)

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aktikt

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Exposing Christian Doctrine
« on: March 15, 2007, 01:47:07 PM »

I'm all for exposing and ridiculing Christian false doctrines to show how evil they are, but let's remember that we all could just as easily be those Christians and unbelievers (and we were) if not for the grace of God.   I think it's easy to become puffed up in pride being against the Christian doctrines, as I have felt myself becoming in the past, if we don't have this attitude of heart.  I say this as much for myself as for anyone reading this.
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Shakespeare-There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

gmik

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2007, 02:33:24 PM »

Hi.  I don't know if you caught the other threads where I mentioned about someone e mailing me very upset because I follow Ray!!  Well, I got 2 more e mails today!  They got on the site again and write me back to repudiate everything he has read.  The big thing today was, how is the beliefs that Ray teaches help overcome poverty, ignorance, healings etc...since we lazy Christians just sit back and think that we have no free will or don't give anything.  Then I was asked why I havent responded.

Because God hasn't opened their eyes! Why should I get into it?? I don't even know how to respond about anything, much less this.  How do I pretend all is well w/ our friendship when they think I am "following a quack" (their words) and will really burn in hell.

When I suggested reading on BT I thought they would really get excited, but instead they have really turned into detractors.
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Craig

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2007, 03:24:15 PM »

Gena,

You've done well not to respond, you led them to writings that have more truth in them then they will ever understand in this lifetime.  Let God take it from there.

As I believe Longhorn will agree with me, I've never, ever wrestled a pig out of the mud without getting dirty in the process. ;)

Craig
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dogcombat

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2007, 03:30:39 PM »

aktikt,

I'm with you on that.  It's so easy to leave our First Love and become that which we dispise.

Ches
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rjsurfs

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 03:31:58 PM »

Gena,

The last "Christendom" fellowship I was involved in was one that met once a week for Bible Study... some of the most genuine men I have ever met.  (I won't mention the organizations name but they are world-wide, meet once a week, using the exact same study)... Anyway, I loved the people I met... they were hungry for the word and were good men.

When we would study though, read together, discuss the study... the only word I can use to describe what I witnessed was "supernatural"... to hear a man read the scripture perfectly but then when he went to repeat it back from his understanding... it was completely the opposite.  I ran into this the most regarding the doctrine of free will.

To hear the scripture alongside other men... to understand and others not could only be described by me as supernatural... maybe the most supernatural thing I have ever witnessed in my life.  I truly believe in having eyes but not able to see, ears and cannot hear.  They will get it when God opens their understanding.  Until then I am not resentful toward them... I think they are good men... but they just haven't been chosen as of yet... and I can't change it.

What is sad, and I believe Ray said this... that trusted shepherds have led the flock into making Christian doctrine supersede the Word of God.

Does all of this cause me to love people less or regard them as less significant than I ?  No.
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PKnowler

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2007, 03:32:37 PM »

Hi Aktikt,

     I see that you are new here. I don't believe I have welcomed you. I'm glad you're here! Welcome!
I believe you are right, we need to be careful about becoming puffed up like we have all the answers.
I believe there is much more that God will reveal to us and work in us as we walk with Him. Those in church
are walking with God as they know Him, as He has been revealed to them. We are all at different places on
this journey of life. We need to remember where we came from and know that God is working all things
together even before we came here.

Blessings!  :)


Oh Gena,

    That is hard. It's good that you shared your faith with your friends but we have to understand that they will only receive the message if God opens their eyes to it. I like what Longhorn said Craig: It's reminds me of "don't cast your pearls before swine". Not that your friends are swine but that they obviously don't appreciate and value your pearls!

So now you get to practice Agape love even if you lose their friendship. Remember we too were once blind. How much more are we still blind to? Remember the words of Jesus "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear." John 16:12

Also when we share our faith we risk rejection and persecution. Jesus warned us of that.

John 15:20
    Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also.

2 Tim 3:12
    In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,

Peace to you my sister!  :)

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aktikt

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2007, 03:46:14 PM »

Thanks for the welcome, Paula.  I'm not that new here, though.  I just don't have many posts. 
Josh
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 03:50:51 PM by aktikt »
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Shakespeare-There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

aktikt

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2007, 03:58:37 PM »

Joe,

I was not at all intending this to be taken as "piousness" and "a deeper more profound spirituality?".  I'm sorry if it came across that way.  I just noticed this thing (being puffed up and proud) happening to me, and my brother noticed it in himself lately as well, and wanted to warn others about the possibility of it happening.  When you're talking about a person's stupid doctrines and the person being stupid or a fool, it's easy to forget that except the grace of God you would go likewise.

Josh
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 04:16:26 PM by aktikt »
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Shakespeare-There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

hillsbororiver

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2007, 04:07:15 PM »

Hi Josh,

In that I am in full agreement, when we are confronted with those still blinded by the heresies of Babylon a kind and gentle example is more likely to bear fruit than condemnation or the appearance of superiority on our part. I too have been guilty of showing a haughtyness because of my new found "wisdom."

We certainly do not want to alienate those who have yet to have His Spirit open their eyes and ears, but those who promote, teach, preach and threaten a weak god of torture, hate and incompetance deserve the Sword of His Word as a witness against their blasphemy.

Josh, thank you for clarifying your point Brother.

His Peace to you,

Joe
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CEO

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 05:38:36 PM »

Grandma
Concerning those who question your beliefs, are they Genuine ?  If there is serious nagging doubt on their part in their belief in churchianity you should restate your stand scripturally, and if they disagree they should supply scripture.

If they are mindlessly attacking with the doctine of man I would tend to let it go.

When they charge you are guilty of no works mention Matt.6 1-2  "Be careful not to do your acts of righteousness before men'to be seen by them', if you do you will  have no reward from your Father in heaven...", How do they know what you do ? ; furthermore if YOU know what their charitable acts are then they are not following scripture.  Then point them to John 6:28 ...'what works God requires of us ? Jesus answered ; "the work of God is this : to believe in the one he has sent."  If they do not believe after having been shown then you and I both know when they will believe.  

I am now meeting for two hours weekly with two men who do believe scripture and are intrigued enough with truth revealed ala Ray to delve deeply into it.

                                                         askseeknock

                                                          Charlie o
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gmik

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 05:54:41 PM »

Thanks all for your thoughts.  It has helped me to tell it and actually see it in print.  At this point I fear it is mindless dogma for the sake of argument.  I will leave it alone!
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YellowStone

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 06:18:05 PM »

We should not be surprised that many treat the truth with disdain and show nothing but hatred towards those who speak the truth. We have been warned for eons that this would indeed happen. For such as these do not know the truth and cannot see the truth. I feel they are better served by our prayers than our words and as a result, I will not debate them and nor will they draw me into question regarding my belief. :)

Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Mat 13:16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men] have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them].

However, it only takes a little while to learn if someone is beginning to see the light of truth, and I have had some marvelous discussions with such as these. All in God's Time :)

Love in Christ,
Darren
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DWIGHT

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2007, 08:10:54 PM »

Hi all,

I forgot which one of you said this, with my mind I can argue the scriptures all day long, but when I open my mouth, I can't remember anything.  I think that's the Lord.  Debating usually causes strife; I like what this scripture says....

"Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see."  Jn. 1:45,46

In Him,

Dwight
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Jackie Lee

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2007, 10:52:08 PM »

My search for God and to get to know him better started in a denominational church I would keep switching from one denomination  to another finally after years in the pentacostal church I knew I needed to stop church.
 I did learn to continue my search outside of church through scriptures internet and asking God to help me get on solid ground.
Church to an extent reminded me of junk food lots of calories but nothing filling.
 I needed to be filled and stay that way I now am learning something new everyday.
I believe God used the church to get me where I am at this moment, so It did have good there.
I am very thankful to be out of the churches now though because there is not much truth there.
I am grateful God removed me.
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Jennie

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2007, 10:12:29 PM »

This to Paula regarding her response.... Paula you said it so nicely. You are so right. I believe if we judge others as being" stupid or egotistical" in their beliefs, we have become the same as those who have put many here down for not believing in the things of the traditional church. Jennie

p.s. Paula you came across in such a loving manner in responding to this thread. Maybe someday I will be the same!
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gmik

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2007, 12:24:45 PM »

I agree Jennie.  Paula your posts are always inspiring.

As a PS to my story.  I received about 8 e mails yesterday.  Each one was after they read a portion of BT.  Each e mail was a little calmer.  The last one was an apology!!!!! Mind you I never responded.  I didn't get any this AM.  Hmmmmm........ I will just let Ray's teaching do the talking for me.
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Flipper

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2007, 09:44:36 PM »

Hey Gang,

I still like Ray's 'Give me 2 verses' criteria which works both ways - to either bolster or dismantle a theory/doctrine.
 
Also: 'the little key' God left for us in the very center of the canon: Psalm 119:160 "The SUM of your word is truth"

Of course you'll still get the occasional: "Well, you're just using whatever verses to fit your . . . " 

There's my $.02!
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gmik

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2007, 12:05:19 AM »

Hi Flipper!!!  That was worth way more than 2 cents!!

The Sum of thy word is Truth!  I love that.
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Craig

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2007, 07:49:37 AM »


As a PS to my story.  I received about 8 e mails yesterday.  Each one was after they read a portion of BT.  Each e mail was a little calmer.  The last one was an apology!!!!! Mind you I never responded.  I didn't get any this AM.  Hmmmmm........ I will just let Ray's teaching do the talking for me.

That sounds wonderful, I got chills just while reading that.  I pray that God is opening more eyes.

Craig
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gmik

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Re: Exposing Christian Doctrine
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2007, 11:50:38 AM »

Amen Craig.  That is my prayer also.
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