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Author Topic: Is the millenium to be taken literal ?  (Read 2292 times)

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mrsnacks

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Is the millenium to be taken literal ?
« on: April 09, 2007, 12:48:09 AM »

I think it is only mentioned once in Scripture if I am correct. The thousand years wear Christ will rule on earth. Is this happening now or is it yet future ? If the future then I thought God's kingdom was spiritual and not physical. And if we rule with Him - why does He need us to help. Can't the Lord do it Himself ? Are we like the police ? Anyway I hope someone can explain - thanks.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Is the millenium to be taken literal ?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2007, 12:43:24 PM »


Hi mrsnacks,

I have 20 translations on my eSword, none of them use the word millenium in any scripture.

Millenium
MILLEN'IUM, n. [L. mille, a thousand, and annus, year.]
A thousand years; a word used to denote the thousand years.

So the word millenium is referring to a literal 1000 yrs., and the only scripture that referrs to Christ's rule as 1000 yrs is Rev. 20.

Rev 20:2  And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
v. 3  and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.
v. 4  Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I do not believe this is talking about a literal 1000 yrs.
Peter is talking about that very period of time, and here is what he says.

2Peter 3:7  But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
v. 8  But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

"one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."  So what does this mean?  I would think it is saying the amount of time is not important.  But it does mean that it will be a definite period of time, just not a specific amount.
Now you ask.

Quote
If the future then I thought God's kingdom was spiritual and not physical. And if we rule with Him - why does He need us to help. Can't the Lord do it Himself ?

It does have to be in the future, because it hasn't happened yet.

Psa 72:4 May he redress the humbled of the people; May he save the sons of the needy And crush the exploiter.
v. 5 He shall abide long as the sun And before the moon, generation after generations."
v. 6 He shall descend like rain on the grassland, Like showers, drenching the earth."
v. 7 Righteousness shall bud in His day, And abundant peace until the moon is no more."
v. 8 He shall hold sway from sea unto sea, And from the stream unto the limits of the earth.

Zec 9:10  I will cut off the chariot from E'phraim and the war horse from Jerusalem; and the battle bow shall be cut off, and He shall command peace to the nations; His dominion shall be from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth.

Rev 12:5  She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

Jer 23:5  Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will raise to David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and act wisely, and shall do judgment and justice in the earth.

As you can see from these scripture Christ is going to rule all the nations, on the earth.  And this has not happened yet, but will be at His appearing or return.

2Th 2:8  And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and destroy him by His appearing and His coming.

2Ti 4:1  I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and His kingdom:
v. 8  Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved His appearing.

2Tim 2:11  The saying is sure: If we have died with Him, we shall also live with Him;
v. 12  if we endure, we shall also reign with Him, He also will deny us;

Rev 5:10  And You made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign over the earth.

Rev 19:6 ... Hallelujah! For the Lord God omnipotent reigns!
v. 7  Let us be glad and rejoice and we will give glory to Him. For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has prepared herself.
v. 8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white. For the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.
v. 9  And he said to me, Write, Blessed are those who have been called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he said to me, These are the true sayings of God.
v. 11  And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse! And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war.
v. 14  And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
v. 15  And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.
v. 16  And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

So if we try to think about all that this is saying, it is that Christ does return to earth to rule all the nations in judgment, with a rod of iron. 
His saints-the chosen few-elect will have joined Him and return with Him, and reign with Him.
Now what will actually takes place when He is bringing all nations to submission, we can look at the scripture.
As it says back in Jere. 23:5 He will "reign and act wisely, and shall do judgment and justice in the earth."  And in Rev. 19:15 "He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God."  And 2 Peter 3:7 "the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."

He will be fearsome when He takes controll over the earth, He will force the nations to live in peace.  Zec. 9:10 " and He shall command peace to the nations;"
The saints will be with Him, reigning on the earth, and "we will be like Him."

1John 3:2  Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when He appears we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

As for what will the saints will be doing, when Christ rules the earth?  I think they are His arm and will be doing the same thing He is doing.

Isa 40:10  Behold, the Lord GOD shall come with a strong hand,
       And His arm shall rule for Him;
       Behold, His reward is with Him,
       And His work before Him.
 
mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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gmik

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Re: Is the millenium to be taken literal ?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 08:12:13 PM »

Great reply Kat.  Helped me for sure!
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DWIGHT

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Re: Is the millenium to be taken literal ?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 11:02:34 PM »

Hey Gena, welcome back,

Kat, I agree, and yet there is the reality that all that you quoted is in the present.  Even the thousand year reign of Christ and the church.  The reason I say that is because of all the scriptures that state that He is, was, and will be.  When we really grasp this phrase, and I don't think I have in full as of yet, but when we do, I think that our whole outlook on the scriptures will change, and everything will become applicable to our lives of today.  I don't even look at the Old Testament as history any more, although it is history.  We are Adam, Abel, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses, David, etc.  All of these stories and people are for our examples and so is Peter, Paul and John and the book of Revelation, everything is for us now...inside, in the spirit.  There really is spirit behind every letter in the scriptures.

In Him,

Dwight
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rocky

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Re: Is the millenium to be taken literal ?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2007, 12:18:52 AM »

Hi Dwight,

based on what you wrote re: the "is, was and will be", and that even the 1000 year reign is now, that would mean also that the resurrection is now, the LOF is now also.  Based on this thinking, I don't see how there will ever be a linear progression of the ages, because all the ages are going on right now. 

is this what you are saying? 
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DWIGHT

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Re: Is the millenium to be taken literal ?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2007, 01:07:58 AM »

Hi Rocky,

No that is not what I'm saying.  There will be linear progression, but we can apply all the scriptures to our lives today in the spirit because as Jesus is so are we.  I hope this is clearer.  Brother, if we just see the stories and the letters, we will miss all the wonderful lessons in the spirit.  There is spirit behind every letter in the scriptures.  We must live by every word that comes out of the mouth of God.  If God is spirit, and He is, then we must see the spirit of the word.  That's all I meant.

In Him,

Dwight
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rocky

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Re: Is the millenium to be taken literal ?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 10:25:24 AM »

thanks Dwight for clarifying. 

But I do have a question, how can things progress linear, if Christ always will be??  In other words when the resurrection comes, one could say, there will be another, resurrecton, because "he will be".  Or another example, this current age will go on infinitely, because "he Is". 

Or after he has turned the kingdom over to the father, after subduing all enemies, will he always still be?  How can he be the "end" (omega) if he always "will be".   

Does that make sense?  I don't see how we can apply "will be" to now.   

The way I see it, is "he was" meaning a jew in the flesh, under old covenant.  He died to the Old Cov. (died to the flesh). 

But we no longer know him according to the flesh (he "is), our risen savior; our high priest, who intercedes for us.  He is in the Holy of holies, and he will return.

But "he will be", the return of Christ, to comlete the consumation of the ages, as he returns to rule as King. 

Rev 1:5  And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Rev 1:6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

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Kat

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Re: Is the millenium to be taken literal ?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 11:12:08 AM »

Hi Dwight and rocky,

Interesting discussion, I actually can see both of your sides on this. 
I was thinking that Ray had this in one of his papers, so I looked it up, I think it will be a help  :)

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html --------------------------------

     HIM WHICH IS, AND WHICH WAS, AND WHICH IS TO COME

When God wants to emphasis something, He repeats it. When He really wants to emphasize something, He repeats it again. When He really, really, really wants to emphasize something, He repeats it multiple times. Let’s count the times God uses this phrase:

"Him which IS, and which WAS, and which IS TO COME" Rev. 1:4).

"I AM alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the ENDING, which IS, and which WAS, and which IS TO COME" (Re. 1:08).

"I am Alpha and Omega, the FIRST and the LAST" (Rev. 1:11).
 
"I am the FIRST and the LAST" (Rev. 1:17).
 
"I am He that LIVES, and WAS DEAD; and, behold, I AM ALIVE" "Rev. 1:18).
 
"the FIRST and the LAST, which was DEAD, and is ALIVE" (Rev. 2:08).
 
"Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, which WAS, and IS, and IS TO COME" (Rev. 4:08).
 
"Oh Lord God Almighty, which ART, and WAS, and ARE TO COME" (Rev. 11:17).
 
"Thou art righteous, O Lord, which ARE, and WAS, and SHALL BE" (Rev. 16:5).
 
"I am Alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the END"

Jesus Christ is the BEGINNING and the END; He IS, WAS, and WILL BE. The book of Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, therefore, the book of Revelation tells us what "IS [or ARE], WAS, and WILL BE." Everything spoken to the churches is, was, and will be. But not everything that "is, and was," "will be" eternally.

Virtually everything in the Bible pertains to the ages [Greek: aions]. All of these ages will come to and end, as will some things that are only used during eonian times or the times contained in the ages.

One of the prime examples of something that is only used during the ages, is JUDGMENT. When judgment brings about righteousness among all mankind, judgment will become a thing of the past, never to be used in the Kingdom of God again. No, something's "will be" NO MORE. Not until later in the book of Revelation are we told of NEW things to come and OLD things that "will be" no more.

Thank and praise God that one day the most dreaded and painful things in the universe will be NO MORE:

"And God shall wipe away ALL TEARS from their eyes [no, there will be NO ONE in a fabled Christian hellhole of terror with tears running down their fire-scorched face for all eternity]; and there shall be NO MORE DEATH [not a first death, nor a second death, nor a spiritual death, nor any ‘death’ whatsoever, ‘the last enemy being ABOLISHED is DEATH,’ (I Cor. 15:26)], neither SORROW, nor CRYING, neither shall there be a ANY MORE PAIN: for the former things ARE PASSED AWAY" (Rev. 21:4)!

How many times must this verse be quoted before we actually believe it?

"And He that sat upon the throne said, ‘BEHOLD! I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW" (Verse 5)!

These are truly the most profound promises by God Almighty in the entirety of Scripture!

Let’s try reading a few verses together with this spiritual understanding of what is "spiritual," and what still, "is, was, and will be":

"The [spiritual] Revelation [that is, was, and will be] of [spiritual] Jesus Christ [who is, was, and will be], which God gave unto Him, to show unto His [spiritual] servants [which are were and will be] [spiritual] things [which are, were, and will be] which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and [spiritually] signified [what is, was, and will be] by His [spiritual] angel [which is, was, and will be] unto His [spiritual] servant [which is, was, and will be] John.

Who bare [spiritual] record of [what is, was, and will be] of the [spiritual] word [which is, was, and will be] of [spiritual] God [who is, was, and will be], and of the [spiritual] testimony [which is, was, and will be] of [spiritual] Jesus Christ [Who lives, was dead, and am alive; Who is, was, and will be; the Alpha and the Omega; the beginning and the end; Who is, was, and is to come], and of all [spiritual] things [which are, were, and will be], that he [spiritually] saw [things that are, and were, and will be].

[Spiritually] Blessed is he [who is, was, and will be] that [spiritually] reads [what is, was, and will be], and they that [spiritually] hear [what is, was, and will be] the [spiritual] words of this [spiritual] prophecy [which is, was, and will be], and [spiritually] keep those things [which are, were, and will be] which are [spiritually] written therein: for the [spiritual] time [that is, was, and will be] is [spiritually] at hand" (Rev. 1:1-3).

If anyone thinks this is funny, he is laughing at God, not at me. Once one thoroughly understands this spiritual truth of what is, was, and will be, it is not necessary to read the entire Book in the way I have stated it above. However, that is the truth of how this book must be understood.

But we read of no "Third Death." There is NO THIRD DEATH. Adam is called "the first man." Jesus is called "the second man." Therefore the "Second Death" is the culmination of ALL DEATH, seeing that

"The last enemy being abolished is DEATH," (I Cor. 15:26)

and,

"…there shall be NO MORE DEATH" (Rev. 21:5).

When we come to our study on Gehenna, hell, hades, unextinguishable fire, the furnace of fire, lake of fire, death, second death, etc., we will go into great detail explaining these things from the Scriptures. No Scripture on any of these subjects will be a problem for your understanding ever again.

And thus we, today, members of the Church of God of the Twenty-First Century, are to "…hear what the spirit says [not what the ‘spirit said,’ past tense only, as this is in the Greek aorist tense and is still ‘saying’ these same things to every generation] unto the churches."
-------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 11:14:52 AM by Kat »
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DWIGHT

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Re: Is the millenium to be taken literal ?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 12:46:18 AM »

Thanks Kat,

I remember that paper from Ray now that you brought it out.  The words that I speak unto you are spirit....this has such a deep meaning that it has become a veil to billions of people.  Just like the children of Israel could not look on the face of Moses, so now people (I mean Christians) can not see the spirit of the Word; they can only see the letter, and we know that the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. Beginning with Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21, every word, letter, number and name IS spirit, and if we will begin to see that, it will change our life.  I believe that we here on this forum, are begining to see, because I see each brother and sister growing everyday. I've never seen such hunger and thrist for righteousness as I have here.  Not that we are doing it, but it is God in us creating this hunger and thirst.  Praise His name!

In Him,

Dwight
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