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Author Topic: Sermon on the mount. Taught to the disiples or multitude  (Read 3768 times)

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Bill

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Sermon on the mount. Taught to the disiples or multitude
« on: April 13, 2007, 03:19:31 PM »

Hello,

I while back I was having discussion on how Jesus taught only to the multitudes in parables and the sermon on the mount got brought up. So I pointed out matt 5:1

(KJV)Matthew 5:1And seeing the multitudes,[he saw the multitudes then]  he went up into a mountain:[that is Jesus not the Multitudes] and when he was set, his disciples [clearly this his disciples again not the multitudes]came unto him:

Then they pointed out how after Christ sermon on the mount the multidues followed them down:

Quote
And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. (NKJV)

It says "the people", not "the disciples". One would think that if only the disciples heard, the inspired writer would have specified "the disciples", since the same inspired writer in Matthew 5:1 said "the disciples" sat at Jesus feet.

(Mat 7:28 KJV)  And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

Actually the word used in the Greek for peoples is actually used many times as multitude.


Any thoughts?


Thanks
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DWIGHT

  • Guest
Re: Sermon on the mount. Taught to the disiples or multitude
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2007, 03:51:36 PM »

Hi Bill,

I have read that when He went up to the mountain and took His twelve apostles, that he also took the seventy that were sent out to preach the gospel.  It would have been impractical and almost impossible to take four or five thousand men plus their families up the mountain.  Besides, Jesus only spoke to the multitudes in parables and there are some things in the sermon on the mount, such as love your enemies, that are not in parables.  Just my thoughts.

Dwight
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rk12201960

  • Guest
Re: Sermon on the mount. Taught to the disiples or multitude
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2007, 03:52:51 PM »

Hi Bill,
Good question.
My thoughts are
It says his disciples not his just his apostles.
Just my thoughts and a little help.
thanks Dwight
In Christ.
Randy   ;D
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 03:55:32 PM by Randy »
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Sermon on the mount. Taught to the disiples or multitude
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2007, 04:49:42 PM »


Hi Bill,

Here is a resent email from Ray about the sermon on the mount.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4117.0.html ---------

 Dear Jerry:

        Great!  I look forward to meeting you in Nashville.       

        The Sermon on the Mount was NOT given to the multitudes as were His many parables. He taught "His DISCIPLES" higher up on this mountain, not the multitudes which He taught nearer the base of the mountain. However, these teachings on the mount are ANYTHING but "straight forward" as you suggest. It would take a 100 page paper to answer your question fully, Jerry, and so that is why I am writing a 100 page paper to do just that. It is called:  "HELL Part D."  Parts D-1 and D-2 are already posted, and part D-3 should be posted in the next week or so with more parts to follow. Be sure to read them.       

        Yes, the professor did show my material to his class and he also contacted me by email several times. After I totally blew him away with the Scriptures he stopped emailing me.
   
        God be with you,

        Ray
--------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Bill

  • Guest
Re: Sermon on the mount. Taught to the disiples or multitude
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2007, 11:07:41 PM »


Hi Bill,

Here is a resent email from Ray about the sermon on the mount.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4117.0.html ---------

 Dear Jerry:

        Great!  I look forward to meeting you in Nashville.       

        The Sermon on the Mount was NOT given to the multitudes as were His many parables. He taught "His DISCIPLES" higher up on this mountain, not the multitudes which He taught nearer the base of the mountain. However, these teachings on the mount are ANYTHING but "straight forward" as you suggest. It would take a 100 page paper to answer your question fully, Jerry, and so that is why I am writing a 100 page paper to do just that. It is called:  "HELL Part D."  Parts D-1 and D-2 are already posted, and part D-3 should be posted in the next week or so with more parts to follow. Be sure to read them.       

        Yes, the professor did show my material to his class and he also contacted me by email several times. After I totally blew him away with the Scriptures he stopped emailing me.
   
        God be with you,

        Ray
--------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat



Thanks Kat, 

Yes this email is what reminded me of this but he did not explain Mat 7:28 which what I was hoping to get help on.

God Bless
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andrevan

  • Guest
Re: Sermon on the mount. Taught to the disiples or multitude
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 12:44:39 AM »

"And it came to pass, when Jesus [had] ended these words, the multitudes were astonished at his teaching" YLT.

After Jesus had said all these things, sometime later the multitudes heard these sayings, and were astonished at His teaching.

That's a possible explanation as I read it.

God bless.
Andrevan.
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Bill

  • Guest
Re: Sermon on the mount. Taught to the disiples or multitude
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2007, 01:45:30 AM »

"And it came to pass, when Jesus [had] ended these words, the multitudes were astonished at his teaching" YLT.

After Jesus had said all these things, sometime later the multitudes heard these sayings, and were astonished at His teaching.

That's a possible explanation as I read it.

God bless.
Andrevan.

Interesting, thanks Andrevan
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Sermon on the mount. Taught to the disiples or multitude
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2007, 01:58:23 AM »

What I never understood was the logistics of the whole thing.  Exactly how did Jesus' voice amplify to the thousands listening? I went to Jesus 86 in Pennsylvania and I couldn't hear anything if the mike wasn't turned on!!  It was a casual camping atmos-phere and people were walking, talking, babies crying, children running etc.  No way could you hear anyone talking from any distance at all.

It makes sense to me that He was speaking to the disciples.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Sermon on the mount. Taught to the disiples or multitude
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2007, 03:44:25 AM »


Hi Bill,

Quote
but he did not explain Mat 7:28 which what I was hoping to get help on.

Well I was looking at this scripture, and we see Jesus went up into a mountain and it is there that the disciples came to Him.  I believe the multitude was gathered below and up on the mountain He was with only His disciples.

Mat 5:1 But, seeing the multitudes, He went up into a mountain,—and, when He had taken a seat, His disciples came unto Him;

Then later in verse 28, that you were referring to, He was with the multitude again.

Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus ended these words, with astonishment were the multitudes being struck at His teaching;

Now we also have Luke's version of this same sermon with the disciples and the multitude.  And here I think it may show Jesus wasn't speaking to them at the same time? 
It starts out with Jesus calling all His disciples together and choosing out the 12.  Is this the match to Matt. 5:1?

Luke 6:13 And, when it became day, He called His disciples, and chose from them, twelve, whom also he named, Apostles,—

I think verse 13 is when Jesus was up on the mountain with all the disciples.
Then it shows that He came down off the mountain to where the multitude was.  Would this be with He spoke to the multitude, after He had spoken to the disciples?

Luke 6:17 and, coming down with them, He stood upon a level place, also a great multitude of His disciples,—and a great throng of the people, from all Judaea and Jerusalem and the sea-coast of Tyre and Zidon, who had come to hearken unto Him and to be healed from their diseases;

But when we go down to verse 20, He is speaking to the disciples, so is this referring back to when He speaks with His disciples?

Luke 6:20 And, He, lifting up his eyes towards His disciples, was saying:—Happy, ye destitute, for, yours, is the kingdom of God.

Then when you come down to verse 39, is this now when He starts to speak to the multitude?  As it says in a parable He spoke to 'them,' before if referred to His disciples.

Luke 6:39 He spake, moreover, a parable also, unto them: Can, the blind, guide, the blind? will not, both, fall into, a ditch?

In Matt. there is no division between what He said up on the mountain and then when He came down and spoke more, to the great multitude there.  It seems like it was the same day and was like a two part sermon that was just put together in matt.
Well that is just what I was looking at, and just thought I would see if it makes sense to you  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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