bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: God of the living?  (Read 2891 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Evan600

  • Guest
God of the living?
« on: April 19, 2007, 11:32:13 PM »

There is a question that is going through my mind at this point in time, and any insight would be appreciated.

Mat 22:31  But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32  I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

I realize that these men are dead.

Psa 89:48  What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.

What does Christ mean here in Matthew 22?

thanks,

Jason
Logged

lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Re: God of the living?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2007, 12:39:41 AM »

Hi Jason!!! :)

I think, again this is what i think in my terrible spiritual state that Christ is saying He is the God of the living [spiritualy] since most of mankind is dead in the spirit and alive in the flesh, Christ is saying He is the God of those who live and walk in the spirit.

Perhaps? I don't know, just a shot in the dark =]

Love,

Alex
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: God of the living?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2007, 01:50:26 AM »


Hi Jason,

If you go back up to verse 23, you will see Jesus was addressing the Sadducees (they do notbelieve in the resurrection), who ask Him a question.

Mat 22:23  On that day the Sadducees came to Him, who say that there is no resurrection.

Now in verse 31 and 32 Christ is explaining to them what God said in the scripture and what God said can not be wrong, and He says "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."  And He quoted Exo. 3, from the OT which was in the scriptures they believed.

Exo 3:6  "And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob... "

So since Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are dead, the only way God's statement to be true, is if He knew that they would be resurrected to life, as the scripture indicated.

Mat 22:31  But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying,
v. 32  "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Since it seems that many did not believe in the resurrection and did not have a good understanding of scripture this teaching astonished them.

Mat 22:29  Jesus answered and said to them, You err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.

But Christ's use of the OT scripture could not be argued with.

Mat 22:33  "And when the crowd heard this, they were astonished at His doctrine.
v. 34  But hearing that He had silenced the Sadducees..."

I hope that helped.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Logged

lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Re: God of the living?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2007, 03:01:28 AM »


Hi Jason,

If you go back up to verse 23, you will see Jesus was addressing the Sadducees (they do notbelieve in the resurrection), who ask Him a question.

Mat 22:23  On that day the Sadducees came to Him, who say that there is no resurrection.

Now in verse 31 and 32 Christ is explaining to them what God said in the scripture and what God said can not be wrong, and He says "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."  And He quoted Exo. 3, from the OT which was in the scriptures they believed.

Exo 3:6  "And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob... "

So since Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are dead, the only way God's statement to be true, is if He knew that they would be resurrected to life, as the scripture indicated.

Mat 22:31  But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying,
v. 32  "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Since it seems that many did not believe in the resurrection and did not have a good understanding of scripture this teaching astonished them.

Mat 22:29  Jesus answered and said to them, You err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.

But Christ's use of the OT scripture could not be argued with.

Mat 22:33  "And when the crowd heard this, they were astonished at His doctrine.
v. 34  But hearing that He had silenced the Sadducees..."

I hope that helped.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat



wow great explanation kat, thank you i learned something here =]

hehe well, i guess i was off, but i said i was useing my own head and i'm usualy wrong with my carnal head when it comes to matters of the spirit! :P

Love in Christ,

Alex
Logged

Redbird

  • Guest
Re: God of the living?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2007, 05:37:04 AM »

To add to Kat's great post.  I also see Mathew 22: 31-32 as saying that the "spiritually living", those peculiar people, that the new covenant (Jesus) is established through, is through the 12 tribes of Israel, coming thru Jacob, who is the son of Isaac, which is the son of Abraham.  Alex, I don't think you were way off! :)

Peace,
Lisa
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 05:41:56 AM by Redbird »
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: God of the living?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2007, 09:40:02 AM »


Hi Alex,

What you said was true  :)
I just saw this more in a contextual way, as Christ was speaking to the Sadducees who did not believe in the resurrection.  So I thought I would bring that out.
Interesting observation Lisa.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Logged

Evan600

  • Guest
Re: God of the living?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2007, 10:01:28 AM »

Thank you guys so much for the insight!  :)

There is another verse that I have a question about.

Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

This is something that someone mentioned to me in defence of 'going to heaven' when we die.  The spirit being in heaven.  I had heard that the spirit returns to the body for the resurrection of the dead.  This is also another question that I've had for some time.

Again, I would appreciate any insight that anyone has...Lord willing.

God bless,

Jason
Logged

YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: God of the living?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2007, 10:16:11 AM »

This is a good discussion. :)

Mat 22:32  I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

While I do not discount any of the Scriptures thus presented, who REALLY is so dead that God cannot awake him? Even in the OT before the birth, death and resurrection of Christ, men of old knew that death was not permanent for many considered it as merely sleep, from which they would eventually be awaken.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.  

Psa 13:3 Consider [and] hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the [sleep of] death;  

This theme followed on through Christ....

Jhn 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.  

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.  

Whether any be alive in the flesh and dead in the Spirit, or dead in the flesh and alive in the Spirit, none are dead to God. Our God will forget no one, for none are lost to him and although Satan is spiritually dead (asleep) today, God will one day awaken him to the spirit of truth.

I truly believe that God does not share the finality and complete nothingness of death as that of carnal man. :)

Just my thoughts,

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
Logged

YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: God of the living?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2007, 10:29:18 AM »

Thank you guys so much for the insight!  :)

There is another verse that I have a question about.
 
Ecc 12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

This is something that someone mentioned to me in defence of 'going to heaven' when we die.  The spirit being in heaven.  I had heard that the spirit returns to the body for the resurrection of the dead.  This is also another question that I've had for some time.

Again, I would appreciate any insight that anyone has...Lord willing.

God bless,

Jason

Hi Jason,

This Scripture is not so difficult to understand when one knows the true meaning of the word "Spirit" as used in this verse.

The Hebrew word is actually: ruwach {roo'-akh} [7307]

Its first meanings are give as such:

1) wind, breath, mind, spirit

    a) breath
    b) wind
        1) of heaven
        2) quarter (of wind), side
        3) breath of air
        4) air, gas


Notice the first meaning of "breath" this fits exactly with the creation of Adam.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


The Hebrew word for Breathed is:  n@shamah {nesh-aw-maw'} [5397]

and means:

1) breath, spirit
    a) breath (of God)
    b) breath (of man)
    c) every breathing thing
    d) spirit (of man)


So the spirit in this sense is no more than the breath of life. God causes life through his spirit, and this spirit is not only available to man, for all animals share the same.

I hope this helps,

Love,
Darren

« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 11:24:19 AM by YellowStone »
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: God of the living?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2007, 11:40:54 AM »


Hi Jason,

I have found these excerpts from Ray's papers, the first is from the Kennedy paper that had a section on spirit.  The second is from his paper 'AN ENCOURAGING THOUGHT ABOUT DEATH,' that really explain the state of being dead.

http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm --------------------------

SPIRIT

When a man dies his spirit returns to God Who gave it (Lk. 23:46, Psa. 104:24-30). The "spirit" is never said to go to hades or sheol, and the "soul" is never said to go to Heaven at death. Men and beasts have the same spirit [ruach] and they go to the same place (Ecc. 3:18-21). There is no getting around this: when God takes away a living soul's spirit, it always dies. The spirit "gives life." No one can live without "spirit," no matter how young and healthy he may be. There are no exceptions. If there are, where is the Scripture? A dead person cannot experience anything-not pleasure in Heaven or pain in a fabled hell. This is a serious thing. Rom. 14:23 says: "Now everything which is not out of faith is sin." If one doesn't have Scriptures that show people go to eternal hell fire after death, then it is a sin to teach it.

http://bible-truths.com/death.htm ----------------------------------


 The actual fact of death is no different from what I already experienced several times. And you have all experienced it already as well. We all sleep, and unless we have bad dreams, the experience of sleep itself is nothing fearful or painful.

Sleep is a way that God can set people aside for a little while as He works with our children and our children’s children. Centuries and millennia will pass for some, yet they will know no death, only consciousness. From our perspective we will never know anything but life and consciousness. Death won’t even be an illusion: it won’t be AT ALL. And that is because "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything."

The Apostle Paul was familiar with this verse, seeing that he earnestly studied the Hebrew Scriptures. With relation to this concept that "…the dead know not anything," Paul made the following statements:

"For we know, That if the tent of our earthy dwelling be taken down, we have a building from God, a house not made by hands, aionian, in the heavens. For indeed to this we are groaning, earnestly desiring to be invested with that habitation of our which is from [not ‘in’] heaven: surely, having been invested, we shall not be found destitute.

For, indeed, those being in the tent are groaning, being oppressed; in which we desire not to be divested [naked], but invested [clothed], that the mortal may be absorbed by LIFE. Now He Who has produced this for this same thing is that God Who has given to us the pledge of the Spirit.

Therefore, being always confident, and knowing that being at home in the body [our body, in the flesh] we are from home [our real home, our immortal home], away from the Lord; for we are walking by Faith, not by sight [‘Blessed are they that have NOT seen, and yet have believed’ John 20:29] But we are confident, and well-pleased rather to be separated from the body, and TO BE [not instantly, but at a future time] at home [with our new spiritual bodies like Christ’s] with the Lord" (II Cor. 5:1-8, Emphatic Diaglott).

Yes, Paul knew that once he died the next waking moment would be in resurrection with a new body (I Cor. 15:49), and although it would happen in an instant (from this life to the next life without missing a heart beat), in the twinkling of an eye (less than a second), nonetheless, it would have to wait until "the LAST TRUMP’ (I Cor. 15:51). But to Paul from his perspective, it would only be but a moment in time, seeing that, "the living KNOW that they shall die, but the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING."

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that SLEPT" (I Cor. 15:20).

Soon we too shall be like Him and see our Creator as He is:

"Beloved now are we the sons of God, but it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when He shall appear, we shall BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see Him as He is. And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as HE is pure" (I John 3:2-3)
--------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Logged

Evan600

  • Guest
Re: God of the living?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2007, 01:50:47 PM »

Thank you so much; everyone that has contributed.

You guys have clarified my questions.  Indeed it makes sense to me now.

In Christ,

Jason
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.065 seconds with 25 queries.