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Author Topic: Two resurrections; when do they take place?  (Read 24272 times)

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Evan600

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Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« on: April 26, 2007, 09:09:29 PM »

This is a question that I have been pondering for a minute now.  The question that I have, comes from Rev. 20.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The question being; what are the Elect ruling over for a 1000 years?  If the rest of the dead do not live until AFTER the 1000 years, what, or who are they ruling?

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

We can see also that at the end of the 1000 years, Satan is released.  This is AFTER the thousand years.  What is going on during this 1000 years?

I always thought that the 1000 year reign was judgment day.  For a day is like a thousand years, etc.  Now, I have to wonder. 

If the rest of the dead(everyone that is not God's very Elect) are not raised until AFTER the 1000 years, what is the 1000 years?

Rev 20:11  And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12  And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Continuing on in the same chapter, we see that after the dead were raised, this is the Great White Throne.  This is where the dead are judged.  Is this speaking spiritually of something else that is considered "dead?"  If they are raised at the time of this judgment, they wouldn't be "dead," would they?

I'll be honest here.  I am quite thrown off by this whole resurrection/judgment thing.  Not to mention that Paul only talks about one resurrection that I can think of.

Anyone have a link, or an exposition on this somewhere?  Maybe from Ray?  If not, I would appreciate some conversation on understanding this.

In Christ,

Jason
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skydreamers

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2007, 10:30:18 PM »

Hi Jason,

It seems there is some evidence that "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" may be spurious.

 These words are missing in the earliest Greek manuscripts—Codex Sinaitic and Codex Alexandrine. (The Codex Vatican #1209 does not contain the Book of Revelation.) These words are also missing in the earliest Syriac and Aramaic manuscripts.

If these words are not inspired by God then it changes how we view the first and second resurrections.  They could potentially happen at the same time, or on the same day.  This would seem to make more sense, since then the Elect, along with Christ, would be judging the "nations" (the rest of humanity) and bringing them to complete healing and salvation.  I tend to think the White Throne Judgment, The Lake of Fire and the Thousand Years could all be referring to the same thing???

I seem to be the queen of sending you to other links (lol) but here is yet another thread that discusses a similar theme which I also followed with great interest:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2749.msg20353.html#msg20353

May God reveal his blessed truths to us all regarding these matters, if it be His will.

Peace,
Diana

 
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Evan600

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2007, 11:26:17 PM »

Diana,

I thought that's what I read on another page that you replied on.

Can you tell me where you got that information about those verses not being in the original?

thanks,

Jason
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skydreamers

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2007, 04:20:43 AM »

Hey Jason,

At this site they list all the texts that are not found in early manuscripts and Rev 20:5 is listed among them:

http://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm

I've tried to research this and there's lots of sites and info out there; it can get confusing and overwhelming as to what's been changed or added from the original manuscripts.  Perhaps it is all part of God's plan to blind the majority.  But it does seem, in light of the truths learned here at bibletruths, that this particular text could very well be spurious.  Time will tell. 

God bless in your studies,
Peace,
Diana
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Evan600

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2007, 08:57:07 PM »

Hey Jason,

At this site they list all the texts that are not found in early manuscripts and Rev 20:5 is listed among them:

http://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm

I've tried to research this and there's lots of sites and info out there; it can get confusing and overwhelming as to what's been changed or added from the original manuscripts.  Perhaps it is all part of God's plan to blind the majority.  But it does seem, in light of the truths learned here at bibletruths, that this particular text could very well be spurious.  Time will tell. 

God bless in your studies,
Peace,
Diana

Thanks Diana!

I will look into this.  I printed it out, and was looking it over.  I think that I've heard of this before.  I know for sure that the King James manuscripts are different than the NASB.  I was always told that the NASB had the "more accurate" earlier manuscripts.  What is going on????  ???

Can someone say faith test????  Indeed I could see how something like this would cause growth in an individual!

In Christ,

Jason
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Evan600

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2007, 01:13:05 AM »

I would like to post what I see so far about these manuscripts.

Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished*

* Omitted by the Sinaitic Manuscript. These not thus marked are omitted by both the Sinaitic and Vatican Manuscripts. The Epistles to Timothy, the latter part of Hebrews, and all of Revelation, are missing from the Vatican Manuscript, No. 1209, having been lost during the fifteen or more centuries since it was written. The Sinaitic Manuscript is perfect and complete and is the oldest known copy of the Scriptures, having been written (it is believed) in the year 331 A.D.


According to Professor C. Tischendorf, the earliest manuscript is from the year 331 A.D.  It is believed anyway.  I looked at my NASB bible, and my King James, and I see that the first portion of verse 5 is still there.  Which doesn't necessarily mean that someone didn't add that part of the verse.  If that part of the verse was not there, it would read something like the following:

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5  This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I feel deja-vu as I write this.  Strange.

Anyway, I must look into this deeper.  Does anyone have any other good links, or information on where I could find out more about original Greek manuscripts? 

Another thing that comes to mind as I read this verse is this:

Rev 20:5  The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. (nasb)

In this version, the NASB, it's wording is different than the King James also.  These are different manuscripts from each other.  It says that "...the dead did not come to life until..."

Could it be that this is talking about aionian life?  The aionian life that is for God's elect before the rest of the world?  In other words "...the dead did not come to aionian life until after the thousand years were completed."

Just some thoughts.  But it still says in the remainder of the verse; "This is the first resurrection."  Is it not referring to "The rest of the dead..."?  If not, why is it directly after those words?

God bless,

Jason
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hebrewroots98

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2007, 01:59:39 AM »

Jason,
The Vatican has so many hidden original manuscripts...I wonder what all they have hidden, even holding onto today! ??? :-X :-X :-X 8)  I would love to know...

 I know that the Brittish Museum holds all these diff codexes: (Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, the Alexandrinus and the Pliny the Younger and Pliny the Older...)  of course they would never let you touch them either.

interesting thread! 
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Kat

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2007, 02:37:36 AM »


Hi Jason,

One thing you need to consider is that a scripture can not stand alone, where is the second witness to Rev. 20:5. 
The only time the first resurrection is mentioned in here in Rev 20:5 and 6. 
Other scripture that mention the thousand years speak of it more as being symbolic, as being any duration of time, from one day to a thousand years.

2Peter 3:8  But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

But we do know what the first resurrection is, as it says in Rev. 20:4, judgment;

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them.

The saints will judge with Christ at His return and who will He judge, the living and the dead.  He can not judge the dead if they are waiting until after the thousand years to be raised. 

2Ti 4:1  Therefore I solemnly witness before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is going to judge the living and the dead according to His appearance and His kingdom,

1Peter 4:5  But they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

I am trying to look at what the scripture as a whole say.  This Rev. 20:5 all on its on does not by itself sway me and it being spurious make it more suspect  :-\

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2007, 09:23:24 AM »



Diana

Thank you for that site!

As Ray teaches, everything that we have learnt from Mystery Babylon is not the truth.

I believe and as I have accepted and been taught here in Bible Truths,the Judgment is on the house of God now means NOW upon those called and chosen. Those who are called and not chosen will be raised to judgement in the second Resurrection at the White Throne.

God does not change and this process of changing us to His image has been on going since the garden of Eden, and continued once Christ came and it will continue until He returns.

After Christ returns then the elect and Christ will correct, train and judge those that remain in the second Resurrection. Once all is put under the feet of Christ to adore and recognise HIM as Lord of all and King above all, then Christ will submit to God all and HIMSELF and then after that God will be All in all.

The time for HIS return is nearer each day and I believe the season for HIS coming to the WORLD is just up ahead considering the height of wickedness and the unprecedented degree of decay in the ecco systems and moral fibre of humanity that we witness in the world today.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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rocky

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2007, 01:02:53 PM »



I believe and as I have accepted and been taught here in Bible Truths,the Judgment is on the house of God now means NOW upon those called and chosen. Those who are called and not chosen will be raised to judgement in the second Resurrection at the White Throne.

God does not change and this process of changing us to His image has been on going since the garden of Eden, and continued once Christ came and it will continue until He returns.

After Christ returns then the elect and Christ will correct, train and judge those that remain in the second Resurrection. Once all is put under the feet of Christ to adore and recognise HIM as Lord of all and King above all, then Christ will submit to God all and HIMSELF and then after that God will be All in all.

Arcturus :)

This post brings up a question i have. 

We know in this verse

Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

this seems sequential to me, die and then judgment. 


Dying comes before judgment.  God doesn't change; and judgment is now on house of God.  So the elect must of died already if we are going through judgment now (as judgment is after death).  So this death seems to me must not be a physical death, if we are already going through judgment.  And this judgment must not be producing death, as judgment is after death.  So the elect die first, undergo judgment, then are resurrected, never to die again. 

elect:  die---->judgment now (in a state of death)-------->resurrected to life.

Now, it seems to me the non elect, die first, are resurrected to life next (rather than judged first), and then go through judgment.  So judgment,  is after resurrected life.   


non elect:  die-------->resurrected to life------->judged-------->???die again second death??-------->???resurrected again???
 

Am i way off on this??  seems God does change (at least in his order) in how he deals with elect versus non elect. 

any ideas??


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Evan600

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2007, 01:10:00 PM »


Hi Jason,

One thing you need to consider is that a scripture can not stand alone, where is the second witness to Rev. 20:5. 
The only time the first resurrection is mentioned in here in Rev 20:5 and 6. 
Other scripture that mention the thousand years speak of it more as being symbolic, as being any duration of time, from one day to a thousand years.

2Peter 3:8  But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

But we do know what the first resurrection is, as it says in Rev. 20:4, judgment;

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them.

The saints will judge with Christ at His return and who will He judge, the living and the dead.  He can not judge the dead if they are waiting until after the thousand years to be raised. 

2Ti 4:1  Therefore I solemnly witness before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is going to judge the living and the dead according to His appearance and His kingdom,

1Peter 4:5  But they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

I am trying to look at what the scripture as a whole say.  This Rev. 20:5 all on its on does not by itself sway me and it being spurious make it more suspect  :-\

mercy, peace, and love
Kat



You're right, the Scripture must be looked at as a whole, and I don't see a second witness for the first part of Revelation 5.  Another friend that I spoke with had mentioned to me that it was written by a Scribe in the margin of the text, and was later included as an error.  It would make perfect sense.

I love it when I'm 'caused' to study more!

Love,

Jason


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Kat

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2007, 02:18:09 PM »


Hi rocky,

Well you are right about the elect being judged now.

Quote
So the elect die first, undergo judgment, then are resurrected, never to die again. 

And you are right all must die once, but this is a spiritual death.  This is what is meant in the scripture you referred to.

Quote
Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The elect are dying to the carnal flesh, spiritually now and are being judged now.

Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
Rom 8:10  And if Christ is in you, indeed the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

All will die physically and be in the grave until the resurrection.  Then at the resurrection all the dead will be raised, some to life spiritually and brought into the kingdom.  The rest will be brought back to physical life and must go through judgment and they too must die to the carnal flesh spiritually and then they will be given spiritual life and be brought into the kingdom.

John 5:28  Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves shall hear His voice,
v. 29  and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation.

So the 'death' all of humanity must go through is a spiritual death, because there will actually be those who do not die physically.

1Co 15:51  Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
v. 52  in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Here Paul is speaking to the believers who will be raised incorruptible at Christ appearing, they do not actually die a physical death.  And there will be a lot still living on earth at His return, that are not brought into the kingdom, but they still must go through judgment.  But I do not believe there will be physical death any more, because when Christ returns there will be no more death.

Rev 21:4  And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.

The rest of the dead are not raised incorruptible, they are not found in the book of life, they are raised physical to be judged.  They too must live a life of overcoming self in the lake of fire and learn the truth, to be given spiritual life and be brought into the kingdom.

Rev 20:11  And I saw a great white throne, and Him sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And a place was not found for them.
v. 12  And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
v. 13  And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
v. 14  And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
v. 15  And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Hope this helps  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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rocky

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2007, 03:12:54 PM »


Hi rocky,

... The rest will be brought back to physical life and must go through judgment and they too must die to the carnal flesh spiritually and then they will be given spiritual life and be brought into the kingdom.

Hope this helps  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat



thanks Kat, good stuff.  But i do wonder,


do you have any scripture that substantiates a return to physical life again, after physical death??

also do you see these physically resurrected people, after spiritually being given life as having unending life in physical bodies??

thanks. 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 03:16:46 PM by rocky »
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gmik

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2007, 03:50:13 PM »

I just read an e mail to Ray from a Scott asking about ANZac day in Australia.  Ray's reply was that at judgement day all the elect chosen will be resurrected to judge.  All the other people will be resurrected to go thru judgement.  Which suggests "all the other people" have died.

So, at some point, is there no more births and then everyone has to die off till the last person left dies THEN the resurrection of the dead?

Then, the chosen will judge all of humanity for a "time" (dunno if its 1,000 or not) as we are the LOF.

Next, I am confused on the Satan "loosed" thing. Where it fits in my scenario.  Also confusing to me is "eonian chastisement" versus a split second conversion.  When every nation & tongue gives Him all the praise and glory when they see the Lamb, why is there a need for punishment at all.  Since one cannot say He is Lord w/o the Spirit, all the people must have received the Spirit?  Yes/No??

Summed up.  Here is what I want. ::)  All are dead and know not anything.  At the VERY end of the eons, all are resurrected, (everyone has to be dead first to be resurrected,) we all see the Lamb, repent, and we join God in "all in all". There is no long term punishment for anyone and we all live happy ever after!
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2007, 04:56:08 PM »

Hello Kat

That is the most insightful post I have seen you write!

Rocky to answer your question, the Scriptures say Matt 5 : 5 Blessed are the meek; for they shall inherit THE EARTH.

The work of the earthy phase of the Kingdom of God is given to such as these.

Luke 13 : 28, 29 There will be weeping and grinding of teeth, when you SEE Abraham and Isaac and Jacob   (WHO?...RESURRECTED Abraham, Isaac and Jacob....WHEN? When there will be weepiing and grinding of teeth...)  and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves being cast forth, banished, driven away 29 And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and SIT DOWN , feast at table in the kingdom of God....

The Kingdom of God arrives with the KING. The King is the Sovereign of HIS Kingdom and the King is Christ who is coming again!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 05:07:46 PM by Arcturus »
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Kat

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2007, 05:10:51 PM »


Hi Rocky,

Let me bring this email of Ray's forward, he got me to thinking about this.  
I want to give credit where credit is due  :)

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1883.0.html --------

Hi Ray, reading part 1V of lake of fire series. Im strugglin to follow your
> thought on the parable of the prodigal son. Especially where u are talking about
> death as spiritual death and then toward the end of the article you make the
> statement "it is after death that most of humanity will be saved" is this after
> physical death?Because, as far as i see all of humanity will be saved after
> 'spiritual death' I agree that all die in Adam.... Sorry Ray, there is just so
> much to process. HELP!
>
> Wesley

Dear Wesley:

Man is mortal, so all manknd will and must die eventually. Even those "who are alive and remain" unto the coming of the Lord will be changed. In that sense, their old flesh body dies.

But we must also spiritually die to ourselves WHILE WE ARE STILL ALIVE.  This only happens to those who are "baptized in Christ," not baptized into water. Those who are "crucified with Christ."  Those who are "begotten anew from above." Those who are made "a new creature," in the "Image of God's Son," etc. In other words only God's chosen elect few will experience these things in this life and be resurrection to immortality with a spiritual body in the first resurrection.
The rest of humanity which has died once PHYSICALLY,  will be resurrected in the second resurrection in which they too will have to spiritually die to their old carnal man and be made righteous (Isa. 26:9).

God be with you,

Ray  
--------------------------------------------------------

In 1Cor 15 Paul is talking to the brethren, this is important because what he is saying to them is only for the elect.  But you can also understand what will be for the rest by what is said.

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
v. 23  But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

1Co 15:35  But someone will say, How are the dead raised up, and with what body do they come?
v. 36  Foolish one! What you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
v. 37  And what you sow, you do not sow the body that is going to be, but a bare grain (perhaps of wheat or of some of the rest).

Gal 6:8  For he sowing to his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh. But he sowing to the Spirit will reap life everlasting (eonian) from the (Holy) Spirit.

So Spiritual 'life' only come from the Holy Spirit indwelling, after we die spiritually to the flesh.  And who Paul is speaking to here, is the believers who have the Holy Spirit.

1Co 15:42  So also the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;
v. 43  it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
v. 44  it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
v. 45  And so it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul," the last Adam was a life-giving Spirit.

John 5:29  and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation.

So we can see what is given to those who are 'in Christ' at the resurrection, spiritual 'life' in the kingdom.  That is the ultimate goal, to enter the kingdom, and to do so you must be spirit.
All must go through this process, there is no scripture that states otherwise.
What is stated is that a corrupt person, will be raised to condemnation and cannot enter the kingdom.  So if one can not enter the kingdom because they are corrupt, why would they be rasied spirit?  I do not believe they will be.

1Co 15:46  But not the spiritual first, but the natural; afterward the spiritual.
1Co 15:50  And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Those raised before they have received life from the Holy Spirit, they are not yet born of Spirit.  So I believe they will be raised into a physical body.

Joh 3:5  Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
v. 6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
v. 7  Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again.
v. 8  The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

Though there is not a scripture that I know of, that states in exact words that the rest of the dead will be raised to physical life.  But all the scripture about being raised to spirit is referring to the brethren.  
So it seems to have been interjected by the church that all would be raised spiritual beings, not the scripture.
This is just the way I have come to understand it  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Kat

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2007, 06:03:39 PM »


Hi Gena,

We are going through judgment right now and we have not died.  So those that are living at Christ's appearing could be cast into judgment alive, don't you think.
It does state when Christ returns there will be no more death.

Rev 21:4  And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.

If the judgment on those that are not in the first resurrection in worse than those being judged now, it will not be a quick and easy thing.

Rev 19:11  And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse! And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war.
v. 12  And His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head many crowns. And He had a name written, one that no one knew except Himself.
v. 13  And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
v. 14  And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
v. 15  And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.
v. 16  And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Mat 13:49  So it shall be at the end of the world. The angels shall come out and separate the wicked from among the just,
v. 50  and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Rom 2:5  But according to your hardness and your impenitent heart, do you treasure up wrath for yourself in a day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
v. 6  who will render to each according to his works;

Mat 12:36  But I say to you that every idle word, whatever men may speak, they shall give account of it in the day of judgment.
v. 37  For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.

Rev 2:26  And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations.
v. 27  And he will rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father.

Psa 9:7 But, Yahweh, unto times age-abiding, will sit, Ready for judgment, is His throne;
v. 8 And, He, will judge the world in righteousness, He will minister judgment to peoples, in uprightness.

This age-abiding judgment does not sould like a brief period.
And also the 'day' of the Lord, a day is symbolic and means a period of time, or as long as it takes.

2Pe 3:8  But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Hope this will help  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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rocky

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2007, 08:55:41 PM »

Thanks Kat, i'll keep studying.  Something doesnt' "click" with me re: the idea of physically dying, then being resurrected physical again in order to be judged.  With this idea, basically those individuals will be immortal in physical bodies, as there is no third resurrection that i'm aware of.   

I'll keep studying and praying on this. 

 
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Evan600

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Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2007, 11:49:47 PM »

Kat, thanks for this reply, but I have some questions for you.


All will die physically and be in the grave until the resurrection.  Then at the resurrection all the dead will be raised, some to life spiritually and brought into the kingdom.  The rest will be brought back to physical life and must go through judgment and they too must die to the carnal flesh spiritually and then they will be given spiritual life and be brought into the kingdom.

John 5:28  Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves shall hear His voice,
v. 29  and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation.

Where is the Scripture that explains this "physical resurrection?"  I'm looking at the verse in John 5, and I don't see any indication of another 'type' of resurrection.


So the 'death' all of humanity must go through is a spiritual death, because there will actually be those who do not die physically.

The rest of the dead are not raised incorruptible, they are not found in the book of life, they are raised physical to be judged.  They too must live a life of overcoming self in the lake of fire and learn the truth, to be given spiritual life and be brought into the kingdom.


Again, this brings up the same question.  Where does the Scripture say that there are dead that are raised corruptible?

Just searching for answers.

In Christ,

Jason
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2007, 01:08:20 AM »


Hi Jason,

Quote
Where is the Scripture that explains this "physical resurrection?"  I'm looking at the verse in John 5, and I don't see any indication of another 'type' of resurrection.

John 5:29  and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation.

This resurrection to 'life' is the first resurrection of the elect, into the kingdom.  That will take place immediately at Christ's appearing, even before He comes to the earth.
 
1Th 4:17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.

Now this first resurrection is when the elect will be brought into the kingdom and given 'life.'

John 17:2  even as You have given Him authority over all flesh so that He should give eternal(age-abiding) life to all You have given Him.
v. 3  And this is life eternal(age-abiding), that they might know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

John 20:31  But these are written so that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you might have life in His name.

To be resurrected to 'life' is a reward only given to the few elect that will rule with Christ.
To be resurrected to condemnation is another thing altogether. 
There is also the scripture of the sheep and the goats, the elect are the sheep. 
The goats will not be in this same resurrection of life into the kingdom, but they will be resurrected then also, but to judgment, big difference.

Mat 25:31  But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His glory.
v. 32  And all nations shall be gathered before Him. And He shall separate them from one another, as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats.
v. 33  And indeed He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats off the left.
v. 34  Then the King shall say to those on His right hand, Come, blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
v. 41  Then He also shall say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting(age-abiding) fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.
v. 46  And these shall go away into everlasting(age-abiding) punishment, but the righteous into everlasting(age-abiding) life.

Quote
Again, this brings up the same question.  Where does the Scripture say that there are dead that are raised corruptible?

Rev 21:7  He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.
v. 8  But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

As you can see all of those that are cast into the Lake of fire are corrupted.  They have died physically once, then it will be time for their second death spiritually.
This all will happen on this earth, all those resurrected are the ones Christ will rule with a rod of iron, along with whom ever is alive on earth at that time.
At least that is what I see in these scripture.

Rev 5:10  And You made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign over the earth.


mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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