> General Discussions
Two resurrections; when do they take place?
skydreamers:
Hi Rocky,
These things that we are trying to understand are not easy! I've learned a lot in this thread, but I've also been confused a lot in this thread. It's like a roller coaster ride...you think you understand something and then someone brings ups a question or thought and it mixes things up. This is all good of course, because it keeps us searching....
Having said that, I may be confusing the issue more by my added thoughts.... ??? (sorry :))
Rocky,
You bring up the scripture:
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
I've often wondered about this scripture too, because if man dies once, then how can there be a second death. And we also have these scriptures:
Jude 1:11-13 ESV
11 Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error and perished in Korah's rebellion.
12 These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, looking after themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted;
13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
Kat, do you know if Ray speaks about this anywhere....I thought he did somewhere and for the life of me I just can't remember.
Anyways, I had come to think that because "it is appointed on to man once to die", that the "second" death was really not "another" death, but rather the same death that was already experienced by those in the first resurrection. And I'm thinking this is a spiritual death, happening in the invisible realm....like dying to the old carnal man.
The second death then, could be called such because it refers to those in the "second" resurrection. It's the same death, it's just that those who are resurrected haven't died this death yet. They've died physically, but so what. The physical means nothing (the flesh profits nothing). It seems to me that spiritually dying is of number one importance.
Once this death has occurred (whether you've physically died or not) then God can change you (or beget/birth you into the spirit) in the twinkling of an eye". Thus you are now a spiritual being, and the scripture: "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" is fulfilled.
Isn't flesh and blood a spiritual symbol for the carnal mind? Surely Satan has a carnal mind, but he is not flesh and blood, he is a spiritual being. So it is possible to be a spiritual being and be carnal. Satan must also, I'm assuming, die the spiritual death, and be changed into something new....the change to me, is the carnal heart (whether in physical flesh and blood, or spirit flesh and blood) being replaced with a spiritual heart/mind of God.
So Rocky, I think I'm heading along the same lines as you are when you say:
--- Quote ---So if all die, it seems to me that it is not talking about physical death.
--- End quote ---
I looked at Strong's definition of the Greek word for "resurrection":
a standing up again, that is, (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, general or by implication (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth): - raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.
I know that Strong's is not always correct in his definitions, but maybe he is here??
May God give us eyes to see in His perfect time.
Peace and may God bless our studies,
Diana
John9362:
Thats it I'm outa here...8 pages of confusion is more then this bear can bear.....I'm off to read the BT website.......I feel a lot less lost there !! ;D :o :D ;D :o :D
God loves you all.......we'll all understand it when He wants us to. So I'll shrug my shoulders and wait.
Love to all
John9362
rk12201960:
Kat nailed it down.
Don't split atoms then there is only energy and that's a realm of understanding not for our minds yet.
Keep it simple and I believe Kat did that with scripture.
Peace and Wisdom
Randy
8)
rocky:
--- Quote from: skydreamers on May 29, 2007, 02:10:04 AM ---
.....Surely Satan has a carnal mind, but he is not flesh and blood, he is a spiritual being. So it is possible to be a spiritual being and be carnal.
Peace and may God bless our studies,
Diana
--- End quote ---
That's a good point. The part i've struggled with this thought, is that I keep going back to a definition of a "soul", which is where to me our carnal mind comes from.
But maybe we can be resurrected a carnal spirit, with a carnal mind.
Something to think about, satan has a diet, it's dust (thinking this means humans, made from the dust)
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
If there is no "dust" to eat (all spiritually carnal now), seems to me satan will starve.
rocky:
Sounds like from a couple of posts that this thread is just getting too confusing and too long.
So I'll back out for now, and leave us all with what we do know.
God is LOVE
God is Sovereign
God has a plan to bring all into his presence
God is working out that plan, and we are a part of it.
Through judgment (death to life), we are saved.
Christ didn't die so we don't have to, he died to show us the way to LIFE.
Jesus Christ is the RESURRECTION, He is LIFE.
Praise God, He is in control of the plan and not us.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version