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Two resurrections; when do they take place?
Evan600:
I would like to post what I see so far about these manuscripts.
Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished*
* Omitted by the Sinaitic Manuscript. These not thus marked are omitted by both the Sinaitic and Vatican Manuscripts. The Epistles to Timothy, the latter part of Hebrews, and all of Revelation, are missing from the Vatican Manuscript, No. 1209, having been lost during the fifteen or more centuries since it was written. The Sinaitic Manuscript is perfect and complete and is the oldest known copy of the Scriptures, having been written (it is believed) in the year 331 A.D.
According to Professor C. Tischendorf, the earliest manuscript is from the year 331 A.D. It is believed anyway. I looked at my NASB bible, and my King James, and I see that the first portion of verse 5 is still there. Which doesn't necessarily mean that someone didn't add that part of the verse. If that part of the verse was not there, it would read something like the following:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
I feel deja-vu as I write this. Strange.
Anyway, I must look into this deeper. Does anyone have any other good links, or information on where I could find out more about original Greek manuscripts?
Another thing that comes to mind as I read this verse is this:
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. (nasb)
In this version, the NASB, it's wording is different than the King James also. These are different manuscripts from each other. It says that "...the dead did not come to life until..."
Could it be that this is talking about aionian life? The aionian life that is for God's elect before the rest of the world? In other words "...the dead did not come to aionian life until after the thousand years were completed."
Just some thoughts. But it still says in the remainder of the verse; "This is the first resurrection." Is it not referring to "The rest of the dead..."? If not, why is it directly after those words?
God bless,
Jason
hebrewroots98:
Jason,
The Vatican has so many hidden original manuscripts...I wonder what all they have hidden, even holding onto today! ??? :-X :-X :-X 8) I would love to know...
I know that the Brittish Museum holds all these diff codexes: (Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, the Alexandrinus and the Pliny the Younger and Pliny the Older...) of course they would never let you touch them either.
interesting thread!
Kat:
Hi Jason,
One thing you need to consider is that a scripture can not stand alone, where is the second witness to Rev. 20:5.
The only time the first resurrection is mentioned in here in Rev 20:5 and 6.
Other scripture that mention the thousand years speak of it more as being symbolic, as being any duration of time, from one day to a thousand years.
2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
But we do know what the first resurrection is, as it says in Rev. 20:4, judgment;
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them.
The saints will judge with Christ at His return and who will He judge, the living and the dead. He can not judge the dead if they are waiting until after the thousand years to be raised.
2Ti 4:1 Therefore I solemnly witness before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is going to judge the living and the dead according to His appearance and His kingdom,
1Peter 4:5 But they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
I am trying to look at what the scripture as a whole say. This Rev. 20:5 all on its on does not by itself sway me and it being spurious make it more suspect :-\
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Diana
Thank you for that site!
As Ray teaches, everything that we have learnt from Mystery Babylon is not the truth.
I believe and as I have accepted and been taught here in Bible Truths,the Judgment is on the house of God now means NOW upon those called and chosen. Those who are called and not chosen will be raised to judgement in the second Resurrection at the White Throne.
God does not change and this process of changing us to His image has been on going since the garden of Eden, and continued once Christ came and it will continue until He returns.
After Christ returns then the elect and Christ will correct, train and judge those that remain in the second Resurrection. Once all is put under the feet of Christ to adore and recognise HIM as Lord of all and King above all, then Christ will submit to God all and HIMSELF and then after that God will be All in all.
The time for HIS return is nearer each day and I believe the season for HIS coming to the WORLD is just up ahead considering the height of wickedness and the unprecedented degree of decay in the ecco systems and moral fibre of humanity that we witness in the world today.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
rocky:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on April 28, 2007, 06:23:24 AM ---
I believe and as I have accepted and been taught here in Bible Truths,the Judgment is on the house of God now means NOW upon those called and chosen. Those who are called and not chosen will be raised to judgement in the second Resurrection at the White Throne.
God does not change and this process of changing us to His image has been on going since the garden of Eden, and continued once Christ came and it will continue until He returns.
After Christ returns then the elect and Christ will correct, train and judge those that remain in the second Resurrection. Once all is put under the feet of Christ to adore and recognise HIM as Lord of all and King above all, then Christ will submit to God all and HIMSELF and then after that God will be All in all.
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
This post brings up a question i have.
We know in this verse
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
this seems sequential to me, die and then judgment.
Dying comes before judgment. God doesn't change; and judgment is now on house of God. So the elect must of died already if we are going through judgment now (as judgment is after death). So this death seems to me must not be a physical death, if we are already going through judgment. And this judgment must not be producing death, as judgment is after death. So the elect die first, undergo judgment, then are resurrected, never to die again.
elect: die---->judgment now (in a state of death)-------->resurrected to life.
Now, it seems to me the non elect, die first, are resurrected to life next (rather than judged first), and then go through judgment. So judgment, is after resurrected life.
non elect: die-------->resurrected to life------->judged-------->???die again second death??-------->???resurrected again???
Am i way off on this?? seems God does change (at least in his order) in how he deals with elect versus non elect.
any ideas??
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