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Two resurrections; when do they take place?
Evan600:
--- Quote from: Kat on April 27, 2007, 11:37:36 PM ---
Hi Jason,
One thing you need to consider is that a scripture can not stand alone, where is the second witness to Rev. 20:5.
The only time the first resurrection is mentioned in here in Rev 20:5 and 6.
Other scripture that mention the thousand years speak of it more as being symbolic, as being any duration of time, from one day to a thousand years.
2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
But we do know what the first resurrection is, as it says in Rev. 20:4, judgment;
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them.
The saints will judge with Christ at His return and who will He judge, the living and the dead. He can not judge the dead if they are waiting until after the thousand years to be raised.
2Ti 4:1 Therefore I solemnly witness before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is going to judge the living and the dead according to His appearance and His kingdom,
1Peter 4:5 But they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
I am trying to look at what the scripture as a whole say. This Rev. 20:5 all on its on does not by itself sway me and it being spurious make it more suspect :-\
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
You're right, the Scripture must be looked at as a whole, and I don't see a second witness for the first part of Revelation 5. Another friend that I spoke with had mentioned to me that it was written by a Scribe in the margin of the text, and was later included as an error. It would make perfect sense.
I love it when I'm 'caused' to study more!
Love,
Jason
Kat:
Hi rocky,
Well you are right about the elect being judged now.
--- Quote ---So the elect die first, undergo judgment, then are resurrected, never to die again.
--- End quote ---
And you are right all must die once, but this is a spiritual death. This is what is meant in the scripture you referred to.
--- Quote ---Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
--- End quote ---
The elect are dying to the carnal flesh, spiritually now and are being judged now.
Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ is in you, indeed the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
All will die physically and be in the grave until the resurrection. Then at the resurrection all the dead will be raised, some to life spiritually and brought into the kingdom. The rest will be brought back to physical life and must go through judgment and they too must die to the carnal flesh spiritually and then they will be given spiritual life and be brought into the kingdom.
John 5:28 Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves shall hear His voice,
v. 29 and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation.
So the 'death' all of humanity must go through is a spiritual death, because there will actually be those who do not die physically.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
v. 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Here Paul is speaking to the believers who will be raised incorruptible at Christ appearing, they do not actually die a physical death. And there will be a lot still living on earth at His return, that are not brought into the kingdom, but they still must go through judgment. But I do not believe there will be physical death any more, because when Christ returns there will be no more death.
Rev 21:4 And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.
The rest of the dead are not raised incorruptible, they are not found in the book of life, they are raised physical to be judged. They too must live a life of overcoming self in the lake of fire and learn the truth, to be given spiritual life and be brought into the kingdom.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And a place was not found for them.
v. 12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
v. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
v. 14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
v. 15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.
Hope this helps :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
rocky:
--- Quote from: Kat on April 28, 2007, 11:18:09 AM ---
Hi rocky,
... The rest will be brought back to physical life and must go through judgment and they too must die to the carnal flesh spiritually and then they will be given spiritual life and be brought into the kingdom.
Hope this helps :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
thanks Kat, good stuff. But i do wonder,
do you have any scripture that substantiates a return to physical life again, after physical death??
also do you see these physically resurrected people, after spiritually being given life as having unending life in physical bodies??
thanks.
gmik:
I just read an e mail to Ray from a Scott asking about ANZac day in Australia. Ray's reply was that at judgement day all the elect chosen will be resurrected to judge. All the other people will be resurrected to go thru judgement. Which suggests "all the other people" have died.
So, at some point, is there no more births and then everyone has to die off till the last person left dies THEN the resurrection of the dead?
Then, the chosen will judge all of humanity for a "time" (dunno if its 1,000 or not) as we are the LOF.
Next, I am confused on the Satan "loosed" thing. Where it fits in my scenario. Also confusing to me is "eonian chastisement" versus a split second conversion. When every nation & tongue gives Him all the praise and glory when they see the Lamb, why is there a need for punishment at all. Since one cannot say He is Lord w/o the Spirit, all the people must have received the Spirit? Yes/No??
Summed up. Here is what I want. ::) All are dead and know not anything. At the VERY end of the eons, all are resurrected, (everyone has to be dead first to be resurrected,) we all see the Lamb, repent, and we join God in "all in all". There is no long term punishment for anyone and we all live happy ever after!
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Kat
That is the most insightful post I have seen you write!
Rocky to answer your question, the Scriptures say Matt 5 : 5 Blessed are the meek; for they shall inherit THE EARTH.
The work of the earthy phase of the Kingdom of God is given to such as these.
Luke 13 : 28, 29 There will be weeping and grinding of teeth, when you SEE Abraham and Isaac and Jacob (WHO?...RESURRECTED Abraham, Isaac and Jacob....WHEN? When there will be weepiing and grinding of teeth...) and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves being cast forth, banished, driven away 29 And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and SIT DOWN , feast at table in the kingdom of God....
The Kingdom of God arrives with the KING. The King is the Sovereign of HIS Kingdom and the King is Christ who is coming again!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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