> General Discussions
Two resurrections; when do they take place?
Kat:
Hi Rocky,
Let me bring this email of Ray's forward, he got me to thinking about this.
I want to give credit where credit is due :)
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1883.0.html --------
Hi Ray, reading part 1V of lake of fire series. Im strugglin to follow your
> thought on the parable of the prodigal son. Especially where u are talking about
> death as spiritual death and then toward the end of the article you make the
> statement "it is after death that most of humanity will be saved" is this after
> physical death?Because, as far as i see all of humanity will be saved after
> 'spiritual death' I agree that all die in Adam.... Sorry Ray, there is just so
> much to process. HELP!
>
> Wesley
Dear Wesley:
Man is mortal, so all manknd will and must die eventually. Even those "who are alive and remain" unto the coming of the Lord will be changed. In that sense, their old flesh body dies.
But we must also spiritually die to ourselves WHILE WE ARE STILL ALIVE. This only happens to those who are "baptized in Christ," not baptized into water. Those who are "crucified with Christ." Those who are "begotten anew from above." Those who are made "a new creature," in the "Image of God's Son," etc. In other words only God's chosen elect few will experience these things in this life and be resurrection to immortality with a spiritual body in the first resurrection.
The rest of humanity which has died once PHYSICALLY, will be resurrected in the second resurrection in which they too will have to spiritually die to their old carnal man and be made righteous (Isa. 26:9).
God be with you,
Ray
--------------------------------------------------------
In 1Cor 15 Paul is talking to the brethren, this is important because what he is saying to them is only for the elect. But you can also understand what will be for the rest by what is said.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
v. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;
1Co 15:35 But someone will say, How are the dead raised up, and with what body do they come?
v. 36 Foolish one! What you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
v. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow the body that is going to be, but a bare grain (perhaps of wheat or of some of the rest).
Gal 6:8 For he sowing to his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh. But he sowing to the Spirit will reap life everlasting (eonian) from the (Holy) Spirit.
So Spiritual 'life' only come from the Holy Spirit indwelling, after we die spiritually to the flesh. And who Paul is speaking to here, is the believers who have the Holy Spirit.
1Co 15:42 So also the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;
v. 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
v. 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
v. 45 And so it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul," the last Adam was a life-giving Spirit.
John 5:29 and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation.
So we can see what is given to those who are 'in Christ' at the resurrection, spiritual 'life' in the kingdom. That is the ultimate goal, to enter the kingdom, and to do so you must be spirit.
All must go through this process, there is no scripture that states otherwise.
What is stated is that a corrupt person, will be raised to condemnation and cannot enter the kingdom. So if one can not enter the kingdom because they are corrupt, why would they be rasied spirit? I do not believe they will be.
1Co 15:46 But not the spiritual first, but the natural; afterward the spiritual.
1Co 15:50 And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Those raised before they have received life from the Holy Spirit, they are not yet born of Spirit. So I believe they will be raised into a physical body.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
v. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
v. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again.
v. 8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.
Though there is not a scripture that I know of, that states in exact words that the rest of the dead will be raised to physical life. But all the scripture about being raised to spirit is referring to the brethren.
So it seems to have been interjected by the church that all would be raised spiritual beings, not the scripture.
This is just the way I have come to understand it :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Kat:
Hi Gena,
We are going through judgment right now and we have not died. So those that are living at Christ's appearing could be cast into judgment alive, don't you think.
It does state when Christ returns there will be no more death.
Rev 21:4 And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.
If the judgment on those that are not in the first resurrection in worse than those being judged now, it will not be a quick and easy thing.
Rev 19:11 And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse! And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war.
v. 12 And His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head many crowns. And He had a name written, one that no one knew except Himself.
v. 13 And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
v. 14 And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
v. 15 And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.
v. 16 And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Mat 13:49 So it shall be at the end of the world. The angels shall come out and separate the wicked from among the just,
v. 50 and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Rom 2:5 But according to your hardness and your impenitent heart, do you treasure up wrath for yourself in a day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
v. 6 who will render to each according to his works;
Mat 12:36 But I say to you that every idle word, whatever men may speak, they shall give account of it in the day of judgment.
v. 37 For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.
Rev 2:26 And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations.
v. 27 And he will rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father.
Psa 9:7 But, Yahweh, unto times age-abiding, will sit, Ready for judgment, is His throne;
v. 8 And, He, will judge the world in righteousness, He will minister judgment to peoples, in uprightness.
This age-abiding judgment does not sould like a brief period.
And also the 'day' of the Lord, a day is symbolic and means a period of time, or as long as it takes.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Hope this will help :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
rocky:
Thanks Kat, i'll keep studying. Something doesnt' "click" with me re: the idea of physically dying, then being resurrected physical again in order to be judged. With this idea, basically those individuals will be immortal in physical bodies, as there is no third resurrection that i'm aware of.
I'll keep studying and praying on this.
Evan600:
Kat, thanks for this reply, but I have some questions for you.
--- Quote from: Kat on April 28, 2007, 11:18:09 AM ---
All will die physically and be in the grave until the resurrection. Then at the resurrection all the dead will be raised, some to life spiritually and brought into the kingdom. The rest will be brought back to physical life and must go through judgment and they too must die to the carnal flesh spiritually and then they will be given spiritual life and be brought into the kingdom.
John 5:28 Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves shall hear His voice,
v. 29 and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation.
--- End quote ---
Where is the Scripture that explains this "physical resurrection?" I'm looking at the verse in John 5, and I don't see any indication of another 'type' of resurrection.
--- Quote from: Kat on April 28, 2007, 11:18:09 AM ---
So the 'death' all of humanity must go through is a spiritual death, because there will actually be those who do not die physically.
The rest of the dead are not raised incorruptible, they are not found in the book of life, they are raised physical to be judged. They too must live a life of overcoming self in the lake of fire and learn the truth, to be given spiritual life and be brought into the kingdom.
--- End quote ---
Again, this brings up the same question. Where does the Scripture say that there are dead that are raised corruptible?
Just searching for answers.
In Christ,
Jason
Kat:
Hi Jason,
--- Quote ---Where is the Scripture that explains this "physical resurrection?" I'm looking at the verse in John 5, and I don't see any indication of another 'type' of resurrection.
--- End quote ---
John 5:29 and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation.
This resurrection to 'life' is the first resurrection of the elect, into the kingdom. That will take place immediately at Christ's appearing, even before He comes to the earth.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Now this first resurrection is when the elect will be brought into the kingdom and given 'life.'
John 17:2 even as You have given Him authority over all flesh so that He should give eternal(age-abiding) life to all You have given Him.
v. 3 And this is life eternal(age-abiding), that they might know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
John 20:31 But these are written so that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you might have life in His name.
To be resurrected to 'life' is a reward only given to the few elect that will rule with Christ.
To be resurrected to condemnation is another thing altogether.
There is also the scripture of the sheep and the goats, the elect are the sheep.
The goats will not be in this same resurrection of life into the kingdom, but they will be resurrected then also, but to judgment, big difference.
Mat 25:31 But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His glory.
v. 32 And all nations shall be gathered before Him. And He shall separate them from one another, as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats.
v. 33 And indeed He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats off the left.
v. 34 Then the King shall say to those on His right hand, Come, blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
v. 41 Then He also shall say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting(age-abiding) fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.
v. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting(age-abiding) punishment, but the righteous into everlasting(age-abiding) life.
--- Quote ---Again, this brings up the same question. Where does the Scripture say that there are dead that are raised corruptible?
--- End quote ---
Rev 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.
v. 8 But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
As you can see all of those that are cast into the Lake of fire are corrupted. They have died physically once, then it will be time for their second death spiritually.
This all will happen on this earth, all those resurrected are the ones Christ will rule with a rod of iron, along with whom ever is alive on earth at that time.
At least that is what I see in these scripture.
Rev 5:10 And You made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign over the earth.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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