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Two resurrections; when do they take place?
Kat:
Hi Diana,
Those scripture in Isaiah does seem to be referring to Christ's reign on earth to me too. It most certainly will be a new earth, everything will be different under Christ's rule and it will be good.
In verse 23 I do not believe that is talking about women having babies. The word children does not seem to be in the original version.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. (KJV)
Isa 65:23 "They will not labor in vain, Or bear children for calamity; For they are the offspring of those blessed by the LORD, And their descendants with them.
It will also be a new heavens, and I do not believe Satan will the adversary from then on.
I speculate that the verse that says Satan will be bound, is talking about his time in the Lake of fire. He will be loosed when the age is ended, because I think he will be the last to be finished and when he is completely purged the age will end, and he will be loosed.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.
v. 7 And when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be loosed out of his prison.
But there is verse 3, and it goes with this except the word 'until,' and that makes it sound like he will decieve the nations after the thousand years.
Rev 20:3 And he cast him into the abyss and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little time.
The word 'until' from Strong's.
G891
achri achris
akh'-ree, akh'-rece
(of time) until or (of place) up to: - as far as, for, in (-to), till, (even, un-) to, until, while.
It says "that he should deceive the nations no more" would the word 'while' or 'as far as' "the thousand years should be fulfilled." seems to fit better to me.
Rev 20:3 And he casts him into the submerged chaos and locks it, and seals it over him (lest he should still be deceiving the nations) until the thousand years should be finished. After these things he must be loosed a little time." (CLV)
And at the end of the thousand years, which is the white throne judgment, all humanity will be "...All in all." (1 Cor.15:28) with God. So who is Satan going to deceive anyway?
But next in verse 8, I'm speculating here that this is back before Satan was imprisoned, at the end of this age.
Rev 20:8 And he will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle. The number of them is as the sand of the sea.
v. 9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth and circled around the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of Heaven and devoured them.
This verse 9 sounds like that will happen at the end of this age, and "fire came down from God out of Heaven and devoured them." this is when Christ return and His fire is on the earth.
2Pe 3:7 But the present heavens and the earth being kept in store by the same Word, are being kept for fire until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
This is a lot of specilation and if Ray comes out and explains this differently, I would have no problem straightening my understanding :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: rocky on May 02, 2007, 07:24:15 AM ---
--- Quote from: rocky on April 28, 2007, 10:02:53 AM ---
This post brings up a question i have.
We know in this verse
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
this seems sequential to me, die and then judgment.
Dying comes before judgment. God doesn't change; and judgment is now on house of God. So the elect must of died already if we are going through judgment now (as judgment is after death). So this death seems to me must not be a physical death, if we are already going through judgment. And this judgment must not be producing death, as judgment is after death. So the elect die first, undergo judgment, then are resurrected, never to die again.
elect: die---->judgment now (in a state of death)-------->resurrected to life.
Now, it seems to me the non elect, die first, are resurrected to life next (rather than judged first), and then go through judgment. So judgment, is after resurrected life.
non elect: die-------->resurrected to life------->judged-------->???die again second death??-------->???resurrected again???
Am i way off on this?? seems God does change (at least in his order) in how he deals with elect versus non elect.
any ideas??
--- End quote ---
Alex writes:
The DEAD aren't ressurected to LIFE. They are THE DEAD STANDING. Literaly that makes no sence, the dead CANNOT stand, but in this we are seeing tehse people are still SPIRITUALY DEAD. Then they are put through the fire of Judgement, and given life after. Death - Judgement, LIFE.
Make sence? sorry this is late lol, i thought the forums were down, or they were with me.
If this was answered, my apoligies also.
Love in Christ,
Alex
--- End quote ---
Rocky writes:
I understand what you are saying, but how does a physically dead person (one whose spirit returns to the Lord, flesh goes to dust, and soul ceases to exist) come to "Dead Standing" in order to be judged?
To me, it has to be through a resurrection. Like arcturus said, maybe it's a resurrection to a physical body again in order to be judged. I personally don't think this is the case. Jesus is the resurrection. I don't see after the cross, him raising people up temporarily again to physical life in order to judge them. But it is possible.
Here is what i am thinking, the second death is the second resurrection. It's a process, with a final consumation. To me this is the same as those going through the first resurrection (it is a process, now are going through it, with a consumation later). I think that is what you are saying too, by LIFE being the last thing given. The process of resurrection equals death to death=LIFE.
I just struggle with how this is done after physical death? Maybe the soul/carnal mind can exist without a physical body?? or all the people who ever died physically will be brought back to a physical life, to be judged in second death??
[/quote]
What i know about the reesurrection of the Dead is this;
1 Corinthians 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
We are told that the natural body is raised a spiritual body.
So they are raised in a spiritual body, bieng dead they stand. After this they are judged and given life.
Thats atleast how i understand it, i could be wrong offcourse =]
I havn't read through the WHOLE thread so this could have already been covered. Again my apoligies if it has been.
God bless,
Alex
Deborah-Leigh:
The question is " Two resurrections; when do they take place?
For me the first resurrection is and has been taking place in the NOW ever since Pentecost for the few chosen through out the ages.
The second resurrection begins at the return of Christ after the chosen have been gathered.
Rom 11 : 25 ............... I do not want you to miss this hidden truth and mystery, brethren; a hardening insensibility has temporarily befallen a part of Israel TO LAST until the FULL NUMBER OF THE INGATHERING OF THE Gentiles has come in.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
rocky:
--- Quote from: rocky on May 02, 2007, 07:27:24 PM ---i went ahead and emailed him. Hopefuly he will have time to respond.
--- End quote ---
I did get an email back from Ray, here is what it said.
Rocky writes: "Hi Ray, we've been discussing on the forum re: the resurrection to judgment and LOF.
In regards to non believers/non elect, some think that those who have physically died, will be resurrected into a physical being again to under go judgment and go through second death , while others see it as a spiritual resurrection.
Wondering how you see it? thanks.
Rocky"
Ray writes:
"Dear Rocky: I do not see Saddam or his sons being resurrected or being "..raised in INCORRUPTION...raised in GLORY...raised in POWER...raised a SPIRITUAL body"
(I Cor. 15:42-44). That's heresy from the days of M.V., and I don't believe most of his "revelations."
God be with you,
Ray"
mari_et_pere:
--- Quote --- That's heresy from the days of M.V., and I don't believe most of his "revelations."
--- End quote ---
Brain fart here.......who was M.V.?
Matt
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