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Author Topic: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????  (Read 3644 times)

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nmendes

  • Guest



 
I want to know if Mystery Bablyon symbolizes Jerusalem or Christendom???  Also, I know there are many Ministres out there (for ex. John Hagee Ministeries) that strongly support Jerusalem and Israel.  As Christians who are under the New Covenant should we have the same support for these two countries???

Thanks
Nicole
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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2007, 09:59:58 AM »

lots on this subject.

babylon = babel, which literally means confusion by mixing.


at the tower of babel lauguage was confused and so it is today with Gods word. christians confused my translations.


we are born into babylon, we are taught from the craddle, false doctrine, bugs bunny hell and from the pulpit. when we get
old enough we then proceed to read Gods word from that perspective. only when we cry out for truth will  Christ open the scriptures to us. in HIS time ;-] :-*

christianity is also mixed with egyption and greek mythology. >:(


i see it as the world is MB, and all the things in it, confusion. educational, political, finacial, and especially religious
as for jerusalem:

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.



i will leave it here for now and let others add.

love and blessings in YESHUA
chuckt
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 10:04:20 AM by chuckt »
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YellowStone

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Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2007, 11:31:20 AM »

Hi Nichole,

You ask a good question, and you will get a different answer depending on which "church" you ask.

However, you asked for Scriptual truth. :)  Here is a very short answer from Ray:

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2488.0.html

Ray,
 
who or what is Mystey, Babolyn the Great
 

Dear Morgan:
It's the Christian Church across the street; the one down the block, the one across town; in the next town; the ones across the whole country;  and those around the whole world.
God be with you,
Ray

The following words found in Revelation give great testament to this.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Who and what are they to come out of. Well, it is the people who believe in the teachings of thechurch (any church), "knowing" in their hearts that the teachings are lies and decietful. Clearly, this Scripture is not just refering to physically going to church, it also means removing oneself from the captive "teachings" of the church.

This is not easy, and sometimes God has to drag one out kicking and screaming. That you are here, posting such a question is a great start. :)

Love in Christ,
Darren
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seminole

  • Guest
Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2007, 01:01:26 PM »

God isn't going to force you to come out of, go into , etc. anything. The verse says "come out" not I'm going to drag your sorry tail out. just come out. You can come out or stay in. We all can. I came out because I wanted a changed life. Did the Holy Spirit tug at my heart? You bet! Could I have fought against the tug? You bet! Could I embrace the sacrifice of Jesus and His love for me? You bet! That is what I did. You can call it cause and effect, circumstances or whatever but I know that my life changed because of Jesus Christ. I am grateful to every person that crossed my path and told me of Jesus' love for me. These guys used to go down the street downtown. They were preachers I guess. We had different groups in town and whatever group you were part of had their own place on the street they hung at. No one crossed the boundary into another groups territory. We hung on our corner drinking and partying. These preacher guys walked into each territory and tried to give us tracts. I was always polite to them and told them I appreciated the effort but I wouldn't read their tract so give it to someone who would. They made the effort to reach us. I don't forget that. Now my life is different from those days. I quit all the habits without counseling or groups but with God in my life.Not to put down those things, they are very needed for so many people. All of that is why I don't get the thing here with putting down churches and Christians. Churches and Christian people were part of what opened my eyes and heart. I don't have nothing but love in my heart for all those who touched my life. Those guys walking the block were brave, more than we were. We wouldn't even cross territories but they were brave enough to take that chance.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2007, 01:19:06 PM »


Hi seminole,

Here is an email that explains about coming to Christ.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3580.0.html --------

 Hi Ray,
     
    I hope this doesn't take too much of your time, or that I'm about to ask a question that's too big for an email, but I was wondering if there's any significance in the difference of the greek word helkyo which in every instance it's used in the NT means "drag," meaning God "drags(helkyo)"us to Christ,  Peter drew(helkyo) a net full of fish, and the greek word engizo which means "draw nigh," and is used in Heb 7:19 "..by which we draw nigh(engizo) to God," and James 2:8 "Draw nigh(engizo) to God and he will draw nigh(engizo)to you?"
    I guess what I'm wondering is that when God drags us to Christ, does the use of engizo mean that men are STILL responsible for drawing nigh to Him? Does God drag us just so far enough to Christ to where WE are required to draw nigh the rest of the way? Is this what preachers and missionaries mean when they say that we must "accept(choose)" Christ?  This is a problem for me, as I can see using this argument to prove that we must indeed "accept" Jesus to be saved.
     
    Thank you,
    Derrick
     

    Dear Derrick:
    The truth of John 6:44 does not rely on the proper meaning of  "draw/drag/pull/push," etc. Yes, we "accept" Christ, but not of our own DOING. It is God's doing:  "For it is GOD which works in us both to will AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13). The first part of the verse makes this abundantly clear before ever coming to the word "draw":  "NO MAN C-A-N come to Me...." There is your answer.  And so, NO, God does not drag us "just so far" and the rest is entirely up to us. It is ALL OF GOD, but we do and perform all that God desires and pre-ordains.
    God be with you,
    Ray
----------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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seminole

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Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2007, 03:39:14 PM »

I believe that God does work in us "for the good" but we have to have a willing heart, spirit and body to fully live our lives for God and be used for His good. Not that we will live this life without sin. It's an imperfect world.
Seminole
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YellowStone

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Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2007, 04:42:31 PM »

Seminole wrote:

I believe that God does work in us "for the good" but we have to have a willing heart, spirit and body to fully live our lives for God and be used for His good. Not that we will live this life without sin. It's an imperfect world.


Seminole, by whose will are we saved? By whose choice will we know God?

Many are shocked when they recieve the truth, so shocked that they cannot see. :)

Yet, it is not for them to decide to even understand.

Luk 12:25  And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

Kind of say's everything don't you think. Choosing to have a willing heart, though commendable, is nothing as long as God has not introduced you to his Son.

Jhn 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

God brings us to Christ, whether we choose to or not. :) Only then we we recieve the Spirit of Truth; until this time all the words and intent were empty. Empty in Spirit in Truth. :)

Love in Christ,
Darren
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 04:49:39 PM by YellowStone »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2007, 04:57:28 PM »

Seminole writes (quotes in italics):

I believe that God does work in us "for the good" but .......

....That word but...BUT...cancells everything that precedes it for me. Like I love you BUT or I believe this is true BUT....see what I mean? BUT is a huge negator that indicates a CHANGE IN DIRECTION.  BUT...and then.... here comes the turning point AWAY from God is Sovereign and that there is no FREE WILL...Quote...BUT

we have to have a willing heart, spirit and body to fully live our lives for God. See what I mean?

Who do you think causes us to HAVE a willing heart spirit and body to fully live our lives for God? Who actually IS the author and finisher of our faith? Is it US or it it The Author and Finisher of our faith? Who is in charge? Is it our willing heart uncaused by the Author or is it the willing heart made pliable in the hands of the potter? I think it is the latter not the former. So if we are to have a willing heart it IS a gift from God not an entitlement or choice! Big difference!

and be used for His good.


To be used for HIS GOOD is blasphemy is it not? If we ARE used it is for OUR good not HIS good surely because GOD IS ALREADY GOOD and He alone IS good needing nothing to add to Himself but by extension to create from Himself children in His image. Now THAT IS NOT ONLY GOOD IT IS GREAT!

Matt 19 : 17 There is only One Who is good perfectly and essentially - God. Would God use us for HIS GOOD....I don't think so!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)



« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 05:00:59 PM by Arcturus »
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nmendes

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Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2007, 06:16:18 PM »

I have yet to receive any responses in reference to my second question.  As Christians living under the new covenant should we be supporting the Israel and Jerusalem countries????  Plenty of televised preachers are doing just that.  However, is this scriptural???
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gmik

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Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 07:00:52 PM »

Jerusalem is a city in Israel.  Do you mean support them as far as our government or do you mean churches supporting them or do you mean little ole me to send someone over there money???

Evangelical Christianity supports Israel as the heart of God's eyes.  They believe we are entwined w/ them spiritually and prophetically.

I do not.  Israel is what it is.  A country that is like any other.  They are not "special" to God.  He doesn't have some "big" plan for them that is different than other countries.  They will have to learn as all nations on the earth about the Truth at the Great White Throne Judgement and learn about Righteousness in the Lake of Fire.

Ray has much material on this, so I didn't include scripture references. Trust me, Ray has plenty of scripture w/ his teachings.
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seminole

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Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2007, 12:20:09 PM »

God IS the only one who is good. Because He is God He can and does use us as He wants. If you harm someone that is not of God. If you help someone in spite of your own circumstances, that is God at work because He is good and we are bowing to His will.
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LittleBear

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Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2007, 02:06:28 PM »

Hi Gena,

I agreee with you totally. Israel is just another country in the world. If one wants to support them, go ahead, but one can also support Haiti or Guatemala. They could probably use the support more. There is nothing at this point SPECIAL about Israel. World events will unfold as God wills in the Middle East.

There seems to be a great fascination about Israel in the churches. Aparently, some people think they are going to build a third temple over there. Strange!

Ursula
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Robin

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Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2007, 02:57:19 AM »

Hi Nicole,

There is a lot of information concerning Jerusalem and Israel in The Lake of Fire - PART VI

http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2007, 07:25:41 AM »


There is a difference between Gods WILL and God's PLAN.

Pharaoh resisted God's WILL and that was God's PLAN.  No one can resist God's PLAN or His Purpose. We ALL have gone contrary to Gods Will.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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CDJ

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Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2007, 07:45:59 AM »

Hi Gena,

I agreee with you totally. Israel is just another country in the world. If one wants to support them, go ahead, but one can also support Haiti or Guatemala. They could probably use the support more. There is nothing at this point SPECIAL about Israel. World events will unfold as God wills in the Middle East.

There seems to be a great fascination about Israel in the churches. Aparently, some people think they are going to build a third temple over there. Strange!

Ursula

Hi Ursula,

My boss is an ordained minister in his spare time (we don't see eye to eye on these matters) but yes, people are expecting the rebuilding of the temple. Apparantly the livestock (offers) is also being bred. A certain type of bull. I read this in a Christian magazine.

Would end-time prophecies be that obvious? Well, I believe Jesus's life was a good example of how people can miss prophecies. They even spoke the same dialect in those days and people still didn't believe...

:-)
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CDJ

  • Guest
Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2007, 07:48:05 AM »

Hi Arcturus,

How have you been? How is sunny South Africa (autumn is creeping in) treating you?

:-)
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Does Mystery Bablyon symbolized Jerusalem or Christendom????
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2007, 07:57:57 AM »

Hello there CDJ

We always look to your part of Africa (Cape Town) to see what is coming and usually if you experience a cold front we get it too also from the Drakensburg as our barometer of upcoming weather.

The leaves on the trees are turning red and golden and the fire places have been working to keep us warm and cozy.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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