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Author Topic: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)  (Read 3979 times)

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hillsbororiver

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Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« on: May 16, 2007, 04:13:38 PM »

The denominations even the non denominational denominations are for the most part working satan's plan of getting our eyes off of the Truth and onto man-made fables, how can one hit the target if they don't even know where the target is? How can we find the treasure if the treasure map shows the treasure is in Nevada when it is actually in Peoria?

Many are looking for a boogyman outside somewhere when the real boogyman is staring at us in the mirror.

All these conspiratorial legends and rumors will have a grain of truth in them that is what can make them so compelling, it is also how con men work their scams, if what was being said were obvious lies based on pure fantasy then who would believe any of it, who could be fooled? Throw some verifiable facts into the mix with some speculation and play the irresistable "distrust all in power" card and you have the makings of theory that has some teeth, the only problem is those teeth are going to actually bite in the place that most peoples attention was drawn away from!

If we are looking outside for signs and wonders we are going to miss the real warfare, within every single person, the spiritual warfare between our carnal nature and the Spirit of Christ within. If we are caught looking to the physical for signs of "armageddon" we have already lost the battle. Our carnal beast has triumphed, at least for a time, until the Lake of Fire consumes him.

This is from Lake of Fire Part 14;
  http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html

THE MAN OF SIN IDENTIFIED

Paul gives us three revealing factors concerning the man of sin (II Thes. 2:4):

"Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;
 
so that he as God sits in the temple of God
 
showing himself that he is God"
These three traits of the man of sin are not reserved for some one superhuman that comes on the scene at the end of the age. Every man in every generation since John and Paul first penned their prophecies, have manifested these three traits of "the man of sin." Well why then haven’t more people seen this man of sin through the ages and reported on him? For one thing, only those who leave their first love, who are called and chosen, and have had their house build upon the sand come crashing down, are able to see the man of sin—the BEAST within. And the other reason is that the man of sin and beast within are invisible, while the church world is always looking for the physical.

I have been teaching for a long time that the crime of "iniquity—LAWLESSNESS" of Matt. 7:23, is primarily the belief in one’s own sovereignty—commonly called "free will." Let’s look at these three identifying signs one at a time:

1. "Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped…"

And just how does every man do this? In what possible way does the average church-goer or man in the street actually do this? Why by his supposed, "free" will of course. According to Church teaching and most all teaching of all religions in the world, man has a "free" will that enables him to THWART the very will of God. He may not consciously feel or acknowledge that he has this power, but try and talk him out of it and see what happens.

If you or I or anyone can actually and factually THWART THE VERY WILL OF GOD, then we indeed can "…oppose and exalt ourselves above all that is called God, or that is worshipped…"

But this thing we call "free" will is an illusion, a phantom, an idol of the heart. It has no real existence other than in the minds of all those clinging to this form of iniquity. I will prove to everyone from the Scriptures in the pages to follow that this idol of "human free moral agency" called "free will" is the greatest single SIN that must be removed from our consciousness in order to be truly spiritually CONVERTED!

2. "…so that he as God, sits in the temple of God…"

Is this really speaking of some one superhuman future person who will literally and physically sit in a temple called "the temple of God" and declare to the world that HE IS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE? Would ANYONE of normal intelligence be deceived by such an absurd boast? I think not! But this man of sin of which Paul speaks certainly has "…DECEIVED THE WHOLE WORLD…" (Rev. 12:9).

Jesus Christ has taught us that, "…the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT…" (John 6:63). Why then would we conclude that the words that Paul spoke unto us are NOT SPIRIT? After all, Whose words did Paul speak, anyway? Answer:

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words [what wholesome words? Whose wholesome words?], even THE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST…" (I Tim. 6:3).

"ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God…" (II Tim. 3:16)

The words of Paul that have become Scripture were inspired of God, and they were the same words as "…THE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST…"

Now then, with this spiritual Truth in mind, why oh why would anyone be looking for a man of sin to be sitting in a LITERAL TEMPLE claiming himself to be God? No one man of sin sits in the temple of God claiming to be God, but ALL MEN EVERYWHERE AND IN ALL GENERATIONS have sat in the temple of God claiming themselves to be God!

 

WHAT DOES PAUL MEAN BY "THE TEMPLE OF GOD"

What "temple of God" is Paul speaking of? We read in Acts that Paul went into the literal, physical Temple in Jerusalem, but when he wrote to those in his charge in his epistles (which later became Scripture), what kind of a Temple of God did he talk about?

"Know ye not that YE ARE [1] THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the Spirit of God DWELLS IN YOU?" (I Cor. 3:16).

"If any man defile the [2] TEMPLE OF GOD, him shall God destroy; for the [3] THE TEMPLE OF GOD is holy, which temple YE ARE" (I Cor. 3:17).

"What? Know ye not that YOUR BODY IS [4] THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (I Cor. 6:19).

"And what agreement has the [5] TEMPLE OF GOD with idols? For YE ARE [6] THE TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD: as God has said, I will dwell IN them, and walk IN them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (II Cor. 6:16).

"For through Him WE both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household [family] of God: And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone; In whom [the SAINTS] all the building fitly framed together grows unto [7] AN HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD: In Whom YE also are built together for an habitation of God through the spirit" (Eph. 2:18-22).

Seven times Paul assures us that, YE [we] ARE the Temple of God, the habitation for His Holy Spirit. Seven, the number of completeness, of total spiritual truth. Do we suppose that after speaking of us, we, our bodies, being the temple of God seven times, that he all of a sudden he has reference to a PHYSICAL TEMPLE MADE WITH STONES? Absolutely not! This is parable. Don’t think that Paul (just as his Lord) did not speak in parables, he did:

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partakers of the foot and fatness of the olive tree" (Rom. 11:17).

Paul is not teaching us about horticulture in this verse. It is a parable.

"Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that plows should plow in hope; and he that threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope" (I Cor. 9:10).

Paul is not teaching plowing and threshing methods here, but a spiritual truth. It is a parable.

"And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not" (Gal. 6:9).

Paul isn’t speaking of reaping crops in a field. It is a parable.

Paul used dozens and dozens of parables in His teachings. II Thes 2 is a parable with profound spiritual meaning.

THE MAN OF SIN SITS ON THE THRONE OF HIS OWN CARNAL MIND, IN HIS OWN BODY CLAIMING POWERS THAT RIVAL THOSE OF GOD HIMSELF! Our man of sin claims a spiritual power so great that it believes it can literally thwart and dethrone God Himself from our hearts. This super-natural power of the will is assumed by nearly everyone in the whole world.

3. "…showing himself that he is God."

Even when we realize that Paul’s teaching is spiritual, that this man of sin is representative of all humanity, we might feel that there is a problem with the third part of this description. What individual actually believes that he is, himself, the Creator God of the Universe? Even the most vanity-filled egotist would hardly claim to "BE God."

I believe this phrase should be translated "showing himself that he is a god."

Notice how the Emphatic Diaglott translates II Thes. 2:4 (from the interlineary):

"…the son of destruction, he opposing and lifting up himself above all being called a god or an august object, so that him into the temple of the God to be seated, openly showing himself, that he is a god"

The Epistles of Paul by W. J. Conybeare has "a God" with a capital G, although I don’t see the reason for the Capital:

"…even to seat himself in the temple of God, and openly declare himself a God"

The New American Bible also translates this phrase as "a god":

"…who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship, so as to seat himself in the temple of God, claiming that he is a god."

And therefore, if anyone could: (1) bring about thoughts or actions that have NO CAUSE, that is thoughts and actions that were created by the person himself and were not influenced, caused, made, forced, or in another way brought about, and that (2) such a person would then have the power to THWART THE VERY WILL OF GOD, by thinking and doing things that God does not approve of, but would never interfere with, then, indeed, that person could claim to be "a god"!!

And it is this very "god" that sits on the throne of men’s hearts, which throne was created for Jesus Christ to be seated in the power of Holy Spirit.

And just how powerful is this "god" that sits on the throne of all unconverted men? It is so powerful that those who presume to possess this will of the mind that is absolutely "FREE" from any and all causality, can either bring about their own salvation or choose to reject their own salvation, AND NO POWER IN HEAVEN OR EARTH CAN THWART THEM. THEY can thwart God’s purpose, but GOD cannot thwart their purpose. That my friends is "…OPPOSING and EXALTING oneself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that such an one as God sits in the temple of God [which temple our bodies are] showing oneself that he IS a god" (my paraphrase).

This is a must read for those who are truly looking for the scriptural Truth of the matter.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


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hillsbororiver

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2007, 04:28:33 PM »

BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD CAN COME TO YOU

Here then is what must be accomplished in your life before you die:

"Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness, and the work of faith with power: THAT the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be GLORIFIED IN YOU [IN YOU], and YE IN HIM, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thes. 1:11-12)!!

How then does our Apostle Paul tell us this MUST be accomplished? What must happen? What must we do? Or rather what must Jesus do IN US? Here is the Scriptural answer:

"Now we beseech YOU, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him.

That ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that THE DAY OF CHRIST [The Day of the Lord] is at hand [FOR YOU...].

Let no man deceive YOU by any means: for that day shall not come [TO YOU…] except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST [BY YOU…], and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition [IN YOU…TO YOU…]; Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped [IN YOU…]; so that he as God sits in the temple of God [‘which temple YE ARE’ II Cor. 6:16] showing himself that HE IS [YOU ARE / I AM] a god

Remember ye not, that when I was yet with YOU, I told YOU these things?

And now ye know what withholds [is restraining, is detaining—‘the falling away FIRST’] that he [‘the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition’—YOU…] might be revealed in his time [in YOU and TO YOU—individually, not collectively] in his time [‘his {particular} time’]—FOR YOU and FOR ME and for ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL GENERATIONS UNTIL JESUS COMES TO US ALL, COLLECTIVELY, AS THE MANIFEST SONS OF GOD]."

Long before Jesus can have a COMPANY of manifest SONS and DAUGHTERS of God, there has to be individual begettals by the Holy Spirit of God in chosen individuals in every generation leading up to the coming of the Lord at the end of this age.

"For the mystery [secret, hidden truth] of iniquity [lawlessness] does already work [‘is inwardly working’ The Emphasized New Testament: A New Translation (J. B. Rotherham)]: only he who now lets will let [‘only he who restrains will do so’], until he be taken out of the way.

And then shall that Wicked [Lawless One] be revealed IN [IN YOU] and TO YOU, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming;

Even him [not original], whose coming [the man of sin called son of perdition IN YOU] is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (II Thes. 2:1-9).

 

HOW CHRISTENDOM PERCEIVES THE COMING OF THE MAN OF SIN

Let’s take a little break here and consider a few extraordinary revelations in the last verses we just covered.

The world of Christian theology overwhelmingly teaches that the things presented in verses 1 through 9 are for the END OF THE WORLD ONLY, and that they are ABSOLUTELY LITERAL and that this man of sin called the son of perdition will DECEIVE the whole world. This is so absurd that it becomes almost humorous when we try to picture or imagine such a literal, one-time, worldwide deception, scenario.

Here is what we are told to believe by self-appointed end-time prophets of doom:

A literal TEMPLE will soon be built in Jerusalem.
 
A MAN [a physical mortal man] will, at some period thereafter, enter this TEMPLE, and SIT down.
 
This MAN, SITTING IN THE TEMPLE, OPPOSES AND EXALTS HIMSELF ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD OR THAT IS WORSHIPPED.
 
SHOWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD.
 

BEHOLD, THE ‘MAN OF SIN’ ON INTERNATIONAL TELEVISION

As Sophia on Golden Girls would say: "Picture this…" A thousand cameras are all rolling and beaming the following event to every spot on earth via satellites. A man (a physical, mortal man, with possible body odor, thinning hair, and a pimple on his nose) approaches a newly built, incredibly beautiful, temple somewhere in Jerusalem.

He is dressed in an all white, pure silk Hong Kong suit, with his collar on backwards signifying great religious piety, and having a huge gold cross around his neck. With unbelievable pride and pompous vanity, he enters the temple (followed by a couple dozen cameramen). He then sits (well, I don’t know where he sits, seeing that the Temple in Jerusalem did not have a "throne" in it, as even the Jews knew that the Temple was built for God and not for some man to sit in it—maybe he sits on the floor).

He then announces to those present and to the world via the cameramen, that He HIMSELF IS GOD. Yes, GOD—the Creator of billions of galaxies having billions of stars that are billions of times larger than the earth. And, although he speaks with imperfect grammar and has a rather small vocabulary, the ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE EARTH (save the Hagee/Lindsey readers) will actually BELIEVE that this man IS THE VERY GOD OF THE BIBLE AND THE GOD OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE.

The presidents and leaders of whole countries, taxi drivers, housewives, scientists, atheists, Moslems, WILL BE TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY CONVINCED (albeit it also totally deceived) that this mortal man in the white silk Hong Kong suit, really IS, THE ETERNAL CREATOR GOD OF THE UNIVERSE!! And all the while, sales of "Official Man of Sin dolls" will sell like hotcakes in all the religious junk stands surrounding the temple.

Give me a break! How stupid do they believe the average earthling really is? Would YOU be deceived by such an one? I should say NOT!

But how many earthlings might be deceived by this man of sin were he to hide in the hearts and minds of men in a way that they themselves would be completely at home with this man of sin, the son of perdition? How many? ALL OF THEM—EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM (including ME)! I have been completely deceived by this man of sin in MY LIFE, for MOST of my life! But NO MORE!

Back to our "prophets of doom" scenario. Let’s read on—I will repeat verses 8-9:

"And then shall that Wicked [Lawless One], whom the Lord shall CONSUME, with the spirit of His mouth, and shall DESTROY with the brightness of HIS COMING [Christ’s coming/Christ’s presence]: "Even him [not in original] whose [the ‘man of sin’] coming [or presence] is after [in accordance with] the working of Satan…"

Make no mistake about it: SATAN is completely involved in the coming, presence, manifestation, and even EXISTENCE of this man of sin. Satan knows all about sin, seeing that:

"He that commits sin [as in ‘the man of sin’] is OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works [or ‘WORKINGS’] of the devil" (I John 3:8).

I am now going to make an observation that I believe is inspired by the Holy Spirit of God. One can easily see that if we removed the words "…whom the Lord shall consume, with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming…" and connected the remaining words (leaving out the two words ‘Even him,’ which are NOT in the original Greek), the sentence makes perfect sense:

"And then shall that Wicked [Lawless One], be revealed, whose coming is after the working of Satan…"

We can immediately see that the extra words (added by the King James Version) are quite unnecessary. It became obvious to me that not only could "…whom the Lord shall consume, with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming…" be set off by parentheses, but that it is mandatory that this clause be set off by parentheses. I then, after seeing this consulted the Concordant Version to see how they handled this verse, and I was pleasantly surprised to read the following:

"…[and] then will be unveiled [or revealed] the lawless one (WHOM THE LORD JESUS WILL DISPATCH WITH THE SPIRIT OF HIS MOUTH AND WILL DISCARD BY THE ADVENT OF HIS PRESENCE), whose presence is in accord with the operation of Satan…"

(whom the Lord shall consume, with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming) is a PARENTHETICAL STATEMENT regarding HOW this man of sin, will be taken care of and rendered harmless, IN THE BELIEVER ONLY (the Emphatic Diaglott also puts this clause in parentheses).

So why do I say that it is mandatory that this clause be a parenthetical statement rather than a necessary part of the sentence, which contains this clause?

Answer: Because of what follows next. Verses 10 through 12 prove conclusively that this man [singular] of sin, son [singular] of perdition, he [singular] as God, and showing himself [singular] is NOT JUST ONE SINGULAR PERSON revealed ONCE at the end of the age ONLY. Let’s read it:

"And then shall that Wicked [Lawless One] be revealed [opening parenthetical statement], (whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming) [closing parenthetical statement]; whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in THEM [plural] that perish; because THEY [plural] received NOT the love of the truth [as believers do receive ‘the love of the Truth’], that THEY [plural] might be saved [as are believers in the first resurrection are saved]. And for this cause God shall send THEM [plural] strong delusion, that THEY [plural] should believe a lie: That THEY [plural] ALL [plural] might be damned [condemned] who believe NOT the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness"

The man of sin/son of perdition is UNIVERSAL and found in ALL MANKIND. THAT is how Satan deceives THE WHOLE WORLD (Rev. 12:9).

Men are looking for the BEAST (the man of sin/son of perdition) OUT THERE somewhere, when all the while he has been present INSIDE OF US ALL!

http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html
 

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skydreamers

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2007, 04:40:07 PM »

Hi Joe,

yes, thank you for reminding us that it is the spiritual that matters most of all.  I use to be quite wrapped up in seeking to understand what physical literal events were to happen before the coming of our Lord.  And while there may be literal end-time events that will play themselves out, what concern is that really to us, who are seeking to grow and mature spiritually? 

As Jesus said, it is the spirit that gives life.  There is nothing else that matters.  All these physical things will happen and then pass away.  It is the spiritual that is enduring. 

I've noticed that I have become less and less interested in all these conspiracies and end-time prophecies...unless God reveals to me the spiritual significance, it doesn't matter to me anymore how things will play out in our physical world.  That's not to say they don't interest me, or that I think we should not be aware of what's going on in the world...it's just that it doesn't hold my interest for very long.  My mind is seeking to understand the deeper things of God now. 

I pray that God keeps us all focused on spiritual matters and frees us from the elementary things of the world. 

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.


Thanks for a great post,
Peace,
Diana
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2007, 06:05:30 PM »

Hi Diane,

You are very welcome!

About 2 years ago when I first came to Bible Truths and then the Forum I was absolutely convinced that everyone here was missing the obvious connection of Israel to the "end time prophecies." I knew that the last generation began in 1948, I knew the Temple was going to be rebuilt in Jerusalem so the "antichrist" would have a place to sit, I knew that the United Nations and the "one world order" would be controlling every aspect of our lives becoming a religion in and of itself. I knew that it was "Gods Will" that I should fight the good fight and resist any and all of these things.

Now after reading the articles and verifying the scripture I realized I knew nothing, I grasped onto the romanticized notion that I could help to control events and be a part of "God's Army" fighting (physically) the armies of "the" antichrist. I would resist any effort to be subjugated to this worldly system, little did I know that that thought itself subjugated me to Babylon, little did I know then that those very words were from the beast and antichrist within me.

I am like you Diane in that the sense of freedom in learning the Truth of the matter would be changing my habits in regard to news gathering, letting the political world effect me profoundly and worrying about events that were totally out of my control. I learned to pick up His yoke and rest in the knowledge He has it all under control. It is very liberating to lay this all at His feet.

It is not an easy thing to let go of ideas and beliefs that were firmly entrenched for over 30 years, I had prayed for His Wisdom at 17 after a series of heartbreaking events, it wasn't until 34 years later on August 2, 2005 (the night I stumbled onto Bible Truths) that He clearly answered that prayer. I know now that all that transpired before then was a step by step preparation for the wonderful Truths He has opened my eyes to see and the Peace I now feel is in sharp contrast to the dread and despair I held for the world around me, the darkness became light.

His Peace to you Sister,

Joe

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Craig

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2007, 06:40:02 PM »

Conspiracy theories and chasing after them have themselves become a religion to many.  Another idol of the heart, that does nothing to ready us for the kingdom and His coming.

Thanks for the post Joe, very timely.

Craig
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gmik

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2007, 08:31:03 PM »

A great reminder and a needed re-read.  Thanks!!!

(I will NEVER forget that feeling when I read that I was the Beast!!!!  I was so shocked but totally totally knew it to be the truth!!)
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Robin

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2007, 11:24:23 PM »

I was in the church and the Jehovah's Witnesses came to the door. I agreed to study with them thinking I might convert them, lol. Through the study there were some scriptures brought up from 1John and Hebrews. God opened my eyes and showed me that I was not ok. I didn't have the beast terminology until I read Ray's papers, but I knew that I wasn't saved and I knew that I wasn't right with God. I fell hard and went into a panic. I called the pastor and he tried convincing me that I was saved, but there was no going back. My brother joined me on my journey and we went on a quest together to seek God. What an amazing, painful journey it has been. Finding bible-truths felt like finding the promised land flowing with milk and honey.

Isaiah 45:19-21
 19I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

 20Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

 21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
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mari_et_pere

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2007, 11:57:25 AM »

Quote
Conspiracy theories and chasing after them have themselves become a religion to many.  Another idol of the heart, that does nothing to ready us for the kingdom and His coming.
Woah. Joe. You're right dude..................I'm mixing Christ with Babylon...................have been for how many years now? .............................
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nmendes

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2007, 01:44:15 PM »

After reading Ray's paper about the beast being me I have to admit it was a little hard to take.  But the more I think about it the more it makes sense to me now. 

Also, a lot of these Antichrist / End time prophecies, I believe, are becoming more like money making scams.  I remember I was a big fan of the Left Behind Series by Tim Lahaye.  I believe I read up to book 9 - not sure.  But I am sure Tim Lahaye and his co-author Jenkins made a killing in profits.  I mean there was a time when everybody was into it.

But in the end it proved to be just another money making venture by Christendom. 

Peace and Blessings

Love
Nicole.
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mari_et_pere

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 04:20:07 AM »

Hey Joe,
You sparked some sort of revelation in me today with your reply. For years I was into all the mainstream christian end time prophecy junk that you spoke of. I sort of moved on from that and got heavily into modern conspiracy theory/NWO/Illuminati/government fascism stuff. I still am. Now I'm not sure that I should be. I mean it seems reasonable to know the travesties your government is involved in (and there's alot of 'em!) However it shouldn't have such a preeminent place in my life. Maybe I should be focused more on learning God's truths instead of the latest debauchery that the movers and shakers of this world have cooked up. Thanks for making me think man.........

Matt
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007, 06:45:25 AM »

Hi Matt,

All this conjecture in regard to worldly events, rumors of conspiracies, beastly countries baring their teeth at each other, liberal vs. conservative, right vs. left etc. used to consume alot of my time often tying me up in knots, it all troubled me profoundly at times. Thank the Lord that is behind me now, there is real Peace leaving all this at His feet.

Luk 21:9  But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

It is all under the Lord's control, nothing is taking Him by surprise, trusting Him is true peace of mind.

Take care Brother!

Joe
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mari_et_pere

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2007, 03:07:55 AM »

Joe, let me ask ya something. How do you feel about all that now? As in do you think it's a waste of time to follow current events? Obviously to obsess over them is, but what about just following the events of history and knowing what's going on without being head first into it all? You're definitely right though about it becoming like a god to some people. (I think it was you who said it  ???)

Matt
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2007, 08:11:35 AM »


Matt

It was great to see your Eureka moment in this thread! Thank you for sharing!

As Jesus said, Mark 8 : 12 And He (Jesus) groaned and sighed deeply in His Spirit and said Why does this generation demand a sign? POSITIVELY I say to you, NO SIGN shall be given this generation.

Is it not intersting that the world and Mystery Babylon is into selling signs to any who will buy them! :D ;D They are peddlers of fear not truth!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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andrevan

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2007, 09:43:37 AM »

Heh! ;D Matt and Joe, I was in a similar boat as you both. I used to be obsessed with the things you mention, as well as aliens, abductions, and such nonsence. The NWO was a big deal for me as well, including the beast/mark etc. Just in these last few days I've surrendered another idol [the mark].

The beast is making war with me still, rising up every so often to try and put back those idols, but thanks to God I know what it is. I've a long way to go still :D!

Joe, your posts were timely for me, thank you for bringing those installmants of Ray's to the front again.

Quote
However it shouldn't have such a preeminent place in my life. Maybe I should be focused more on learning God's truths instead of the latest debauchery that the movers and shakers of this world have cooked up. Thanks for making me think man.........

This is awesome Matt  :D, that you're considering where your primary focus should be. There are so many distractions in the world today, especially with the amount of information that is available over the net, we can lose our way if we're not careful.

God's peace to you all.
Soundpod.
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Redbird

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2007, 09:44:16 AM »

So true Arcturus, "They are peddlers of fear not truth!"  People who buy into this are only feeding their agenda. Some actually believe "they" are in control versus God :-\......well we all know differently.

Mark 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.  36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.

Glory be to God,
Lisa
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 09:55:51 AM by Redbird »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2007, 10:09:01 AM »


B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L words of God Lisa.

Here is another that I think also fits!

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. Heb 4:9  :)  8)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

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hillsbororiver

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2007, 06:52:22 PM »



Joe, let me ask ya something. How do you feel about all that now? As in do you think it's a waste of time to follow current events? Obviously to obsess over them is, but what about just following the events of history and knowing what's going on without being head first into it all? You're definitely right though about it becoming like a god to some people. (I think it was you who said it  ???)

Matt

Hi Matt,

Sorry it took so long getting back to you.

No I do not think it is a waste of time to be aware of current events but I do think it is a waste of emotion (even to the point of being intemperate) to be consumed by current events and the accompanying opinions, innuendo, and divisiveness inherent in debating these events and issues from a humanistic (naturally flawed) perspective.

I have mentioned before that at one time not very long ago I was a political junkie/animal, I would work myself into a lather over opinions that did not line up with my own, why? Because I was right!  ::)

When I first read on Bible Truths that we should be loving all men even the terrorists I just could not bear to swallow that, I was still in the Babylonian mindset where you loved all men selectively, of course our love for those who believe in a kind, merciful God who will ultimately bring all to Him is a deeper and more profound love than for those who still hate so many and disrupt others lives willfully or indiscriminately. With that being said the Lord has opened my eyes to the fact that without His grace I could be in the severest darkness where evil is good and darkness is light, this realization has truly humbled me and my hatred has been transformed into empathy, I do not condone the wretched evils being perpetrated every minute of every day but I can now see that He has saved me from this not that I am morally superior to anyone.

I hope this helps in clarifying how I presently feel and also I thank everyone who posted here, some really inspiring messages.

His Peace to you,

Joe

P.S. I cannot take credit for the following, Craig thought it up all by himself  ;) and I agree wholeheartedly!


Conspiracy theories and chasing after them have themselves become a religion to many.  Another idol of the heart, that does nothing to ready us for the kingdom and His coming.

Thanks for the post Joe, very timely.

Craig





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mari_et_pere

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2007, 03:20:40 AM »

Joe, how you say you presently feel about it seems to be what I'm working my way towards. Accidentally at that. I just....I just don't FEAR the world anymore. I feel that this country may be heading towards something terrible, but I know that IF it does, that it'll come about as God's will has led it. And if terrorists bomb something else, I know it's because of the same. It's God's world. My church that I quit attending used to sing a pop christian song that said "God is in control." How right they were. I'm really feeling HIS influence in the world instead of the WORLD's influence lately.

Peace

Matt
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2007, 08:39:00 AM »

Mat 11:28  Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
 
Mat 11:29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Hello again Matt,

It is a beautiful thing when He unfolds His plan and purpose before our eyes, when we are able to accept this it truly does give the Peace, Comfort & freedom that is Him .

Joh 8:32  And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.

Praise Him!

Joe
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gmik

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Re: Free Will, The Beast, Antichrist (One & the Same)
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2007, 01:15:27 AM »

Matt, I wonder how many in that church singing "God is in Control" actually believed it.  Sometimes I wouldn't even sing a song cuz it just wasn't true in my life. One that choked me up was the line "and nothing I desire compares w/ you" when I knew better.

Sorry, got off on a tangent.   Proceed!!

I used to be a Fox TV News junkie.  That keeps you mad all the time.  Glad I got away from that!!
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