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[mrsnacks]

I have wondered about this. Jesus used sarcasm and appeared very upset and angry with them for not getting it. They were blind spiritually  , and in fact blind guides He called them. He was harsh with them. We don't get that way with those that can't see ( in the church ) so why did Jesus ? It wasn't given to them to know. He came off very strong but then on the cross He said " Father forgive them for they know not what they do. "

[rk12201960]

Hi Mr,
My thoughts are they were self righteous and were very comfortable being in an high place and in control of people (you are like your father the devil)
They put down and hindered placed burdens beyond reason so they could feel (better than others) this is not a Godly quality but a selfish one and as we know Jesus was a misfit ugly and just the kinda guy you pick last on the baseball team.

they were blind true but seems to me the loved it and Jesus knew that.

Your brother
Randy
 

[Deborah-Leigh]

As far as forgiveness is concerned we are commanded to forgive those who offend or "tresspass" against us.

Where it is stated that Jesus said...."for they know not what they do" as the REASON or the LOGIC towards asking the Father to forgive His assassins, I understand that this part of the Scriptures do NOT appear in the two oldest Greek manuscripts: The Sinaitic and the Vatican#1209. Ref to Skydreamers who kindly posted some time ago a link to all the scriptures that are not translated from the more reliable, ancient manuscripts. 

We are to be without condemnation of those who do wrong and we are not to hold them as guilty under verdict but are to desire their repentance and submit all injustice to God as He is the Righteous Judge.

As Randy says, I believe Jesus was angry at the fact that sinners LIKE to sin! He wanted them to get over it! I do not think He was impatient when He turned over the tables of the merchants at the House of God. I think He was expressing Holy Righteous Rage against idolatry, greed, self aggrandisement and deceit. That is how He showed love for God the Father and an example to those who follow His steps and might learn something from His reaction to false and wicked ways.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[hillsbororiver]

I cannot recall any scripture that states that Jesus railed upon the masses, just the leaders, the blind guides, the selfish lying "shepherds" and anyone who put themselves above the flock. They knew they were being self serving and loved it, the circumstances for their greed were put into place but the love of gain was in their heart.

Isa 56:11  Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Mat 23:16  Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

The teachers of false doctrines who scare the sheep into giving them what they really desire will have the most to answer for.

Tit 1:11  Whose3739 mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Kat]

Hi mrsnacks,

John 12:49  For I have not spoken of Myself, but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say, and what I should speak.
v. 50  And I know that His command is life everlasting. Therefore whatever I speak, even as the Father said to Me, so I speak.

I believe that every word that Jesus spoke while on earth was exactly the right things to say at the time.  I think what He said was always in the perfect tone of voice and demeanor, in dealing with all those whom He spoke to.  He used all of His human means of expression to demonstrate exactly what was needed for every situation.  He was able to perfectly communicate whatever He desired to everyone He spoke   

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Joey Porter]

It was the Pharisees' own pride, the carnal beast within, that prevented them from being able to see the Truth:

John 9
41Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

That is why Jesus got angry with them.  It wasn't given to them to see because they didn't want to see.  They supressed the Truth even though He walked among them.  They refused to humble themselves.  They believed they had all the answers.  It's the same carnal beast that causes the church world to be divided into thousands of man made denominations today.

[mari_et_pere]

It wasn't given to them to see because they didn't want to see.  They supressed the Truth even though He walked among them.  They refused to humble themselves.  They believed they had all the answers.  It's the same carnal beast that causes the church world to be divided into thousands of man made denominations today.

Well said! To expand on that a bit, I believe that not only did they not want to see, but that they had every opportunity to see, but chose to believe themselves instead. I'm sure they knew that there were other options, but were too self righteous to open themselves up to possibilities. Sound familiar? Maybe like today's Christian culture?

Peace

Matt

[Joey Porter]

It wasn't given to them to see because they didn't want to see.  They supressed the Truth even though He walked among them.  They refused to humble themselves.  They believed they had all the answers.  It's the same carnal beast that causes the church world to be divided into thousands of man made denominations today.

Well said! To expand on that a bit, I believe that not only did they not want to see, but that they had every opportunity to see, but chose to believe themselves instead. I'm sure they knew that there were other options, but were too self righteous to open themselves up to possibilities. Sound familiar? Maybe like today's Christian culture?

Peace

Matt

I think this is right.  Those who have an oppurtunity to hear the Truth but reject it are held to a higher standard than those who do not have the same oppurtunites.

John 15
22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

[crazy4bam]

Hi mrsnacks,

John 12:49  For I have not spoken of Myself, but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say, and what I should speak.
v. 50  And I know that His command is life everlasting. Therefore whatever I speak, even as the Father said to Me, so I speak.

I believe that every word that Jesus spoke while on earth was exactly the right things to say at the time.  I think what He said was always in the perfect tone of voice and demeanor, in dealing with all those whom He spoke to.  He used all of His human means of expression to demonstrate exactly what was needed for every situation.  He was able to perfectly communicate whatever He desired to everyone He spoke   

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

I read this Kat looking through old post. I read and reread what you said about how Jesus always used a perfect tone,was able to communicate perfectly whatever he desired to everyone he spoke to. I only wish us humans did the same thing. We always find ourselves yelling at each other, being nasty, rude. I wonder if we used a perfect tone, and tried to communicate good towards others we might get what we wanted more. Thanks Kat for this, it was something I needed.

[Joel]

Was it all anger?
Proverbs 27:5
Open rebuke is better than secret love.

Proverbs 28:23
He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.

Paul was lead to do the same thing.
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

The underlying question to me is, whats the motive.

Joel

[Heidi]

Proverbs 27:5
Open rebuke is better than secret love.

Proverbs 28:23
He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.

Joel

That is so true Joel.....it can also be said that as humans we are so scared not to speak out for fear of hurting someones feelings, but in fact, doing more damage for not correcting or rebuking them.

Heidi

[daywalker]

I have wondered about this. Jesus used sarcasm and appeared very upset and angry with them for not getting it. They were blind spiritually  , and in fact blind guides He called them. He was harsh with them. We don't get that way with those that can't see ( in the church ) so why did Jesus ? It wasn't given to them to know. He came off very strong but then on the cross He said " Father forgive them for they know not what they do. "

How else would we know who the hypocrites are if Jesus didn't point them out for us?

Godspeed,
Daywalker

[Dave in Tenn]

True.  And how would we know what hypocricy is in us if He didn't point it out in others.

"When YOU _______, don't do as the hypocrites do." = "Come out of her, my people."  Jesus said them both. 

We won't stop doing as the hypocrites did, unless we've done what the hypocrites do.  We won't come out of her, unless we've been in her.   

[daywalker]

True.  And how would we know what hypocricy is in us if He didn't point it out in others.

"When YOU _______, don't do as the hypocrites do." = "Come out of her, my people."  Jesus said them both. 

We won't stop doing as the hypocrites did, unless we've done what the hypocrites do.  We won't come out of her, unless we've been in her.   

As my old preacher man used to say, "can I get an 'amen'!" 

[markn902]

Amen! 

[the truth]

When you are Truth, you confront everything that is not!Even if you caused it.Can you say example.