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Author Topic: Trinity  (Read 2651 times)

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Craig

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Trinity
« on: May 27, 2007, 08:24:11 PM »

Dear Andrew:  I don't know why, but I will make a few COMMENTS in your email....

> Hello Sir,
> I was reading your paper on the trinity and I couldn't help but notice some
> key things. To begin it seems to me that the majority of the verses used
> were out of context.
 
COMMENT: "the majority" were out of context, where they? And you couldn't
even cite ONE?  You have not a clue as to what "context" even means. You heard
it said by theologians (who also didn't know what it means) and you are parroting it
as if you are saying something meaningful.

 
 I do not have the paper in front of me, but noticed
> while reading that something wasn't right about them. Also Sir, I believe
> you forgot the main verse that proves God as a Triune being, this being
> Duetronomy 6:4 "Hear O Israel, The LORD thy GOD, the LORD is one." Sounds
> Triune to me sir
 
COMMENT:  Oh really?  "Yahweh our Elohim is one Yahweh" says that there are "THREE PERSONS IN ONE GOD?"  Is that what that verse says? "The LORD GOD is one LORD."
Where do you see "three" of ANYTHING in that verse?  And you say that this is the "MAIN verse that proves God as a triune being?"  Wow! The "main" one?  In other words, you have NOT ONE SINGLE VERSE OF SCRITPURE IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE that proves God is a "Triune" God of three persons! Unbelievable.

 
. Also Isaiah 7:8 which states "Whom shall I send? and Whom
> will go for US?"
 
COMMENT:  And that verse too says that there are THREE PERSONS IN ONE GOD, does it? Why can't my eyes see that. I don't see "three" of ANYTHING in that verse?  Do you think that the word "US" means "three?"  Maybe look up the word "us" in a dictionary and see if the definition is "three" of ANYTHING?
 
 please feel free to take another 10 pages to explain 2
> verses that brought you argument to its knees. Without God The Father, God
> the Son, and God the Holy Spirit being One, there is no Christianity and we
> are all LUNATICS
 
COMMENT:  "THOU hast said...." But speak for yourself. Your conclusion is well noted.
God be with you,
Ray

 
 bound for nothingness at the end of our life.
>
> Thank You Sir,
> Andrew
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Craig

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2007, 08:26:23 PM »

Dear Andrew:  I will make a few COMMENTS in your email....

> Sir,
> You said yourself you are no theologian I am not one either, but I am bought
> by the blood of Jesus Christ. You take verses out of context, which is to
> say, you use the verse that suits what you have to say.
 
COMMENT:  Excuse me!  Does not everyone use the Scriptures from the\
Bible to SUPPORT WHAT THEY BELIEVE.  I don't know of any Scriptures
which do NOT support what I believe, and so ALL the Scriptures that I use,
"suits what I say."

 
 Like saying that
> Jesus and the Father and not One, this is untrue.
 
COMMENT:  You statement is grossly FALSE! Where have I ever said that
the Father and His Son are not ONE?  Where? I believe it would be conservative
for me to say that I have cited John 10:30--"I and My Father are ONE," more than
any other writer out of the 800,000,000 sites on the International Web. Would you
like to try and prove me wrong on that point?

 
 Jesus may have come out of
> the Father, but John 1:18 says "No one has ever seen God, but God the One
> and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made Him known." This verse shows
> that God the Father and Jesus are both God, does it not?
 
COMMENT: Andrew, Andrew, you are arguing with yourself. I had a whole
Bible Conference last weekend in Nashville wherein I made these same statements
over and over concerning the fact that Jesus ONLY has revealed Who God His
Father is.  You not only do not know what the Bible teaches concerning the nature
of Jesus and His Father and THEIR Holy Spirit, but you ridicule me, and you don't even know what I teach.

 
 If Jesus is not
> apart of God then He was a crazed lunatic and we live for nothing.
 
COMMENT:  Actually Christianity does not stand or fall over whether
God consists of THREE PERSONS or not.  You just said yourself that Jesus
is "a part of God," in your sentence above. No, actually Jesus is not "a part of
God," Jesus IS GOD. Jesus has all the character traits and attributes of power
and knowledge and love and wisdom, and therefore IS GOD. But He is not His
Own Father, and neither is the Holy Spirit, His sister, brother, son, mother, or
any other such unscriptural nonsense. Jesus is a Son and His God is a Father.
And there are no other "family" relationships in the title "God." The Holy
Spirit is the Spirit OF Jesus and OF His Father. It is in fact, what makes THEM
TWAIN, ONE.

 
 And in
> the same why does Genesis 1:26 say "Then God said, "Let US make man in our
> image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the
> birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the
> creatures that move along the ground." And if we, as ones who believe that
> we are made in God's image,
 
COMMENT:  But we are not YET made in God's Spiritual Image. The
Hebrew is akin to the Greek aorist tense (indefinite--past, present, and future).
God did not so "loved" the world, but "God thus LOVES the world, that He gave
His only begotten Son, that whosoever believES [not believED--it is a continuing
action through all generations, not just the past]....'  We are to "BE" conformed
the image of God's Son (Rom. 8:29, etc.).

 
 believe we have a mind, body and spirit. Would
> not God also have 3 parts, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
 
COMMENT:  NONSENSE!  Nowhere but in trinitarian theology do we find such
unscriptural nonsense. Where in Scripture do we find that man is described as "MIND,
body and spirit?" Where.  Made is made of two components and two only (Read my Part C
on Hell--"The Origin of Everlasting Torment" regarding how God made made and of
what he now consists), []] God formed man of the DUST OF THE GROUND --a BODY,
and [2] He BREATHED into his nostrils the "BREATH [ruach--SPIRIT] of life. Those
are the ONLY two components of man mentioned in the Scriptures. When God put those
two (not three) components together, then the MAN became a "LIVING SOUL." Man IS A LIVING SOUL. And when he dies HE IS A DEAD SOUL. That's it! God never "put"a third component of a soul into the man. He IS a soul when he is alive. This has totally nothing
to do with the pagan doctrine of a "triune god."

 
 And what is more do
> you claim that the Apostles were wrong becuase they believed in the Triune
> being of God.
 
COMMENT:  Don't pull such double-talk on me. No, I have never accused the
Apostles of being "wrong" about their doctrinal believes, and NO, the Apostles
decidedly did NOT believe in a pagan triune god.

 
 And another final point in Matthew 3:16-17 says "As soon as
> Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was
> opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on
> him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I
> am well pleased." As yu see in this passage we Have Jesus, God the Son, The
> Dove/Spirit of God, God the Holy Spirit, and God the Father all present. I
> welcome you to explain these verses away,
 
COMMENT:  There is nothing to "explain away."  The Spirit of God is
NOT A PERSON, and a dove is NOT A PERSON. So where in the world
do you get a "third triune PERSON out of a dove?"
 
One more time:  Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit OF God
His Father. That is why He is "the Son of the FATHER," and not "the Son of the
Holy Spirit."  Am I going to fast for you? Do you have an answer for this one point
alone which totally demolishes the "Holy Spirit is a separate person from Jesus and His
Father and therefore God is a triune of three separate people). You don't have an answer
for why Jesus is not "the Son of the Holy Spirit," DO YOU?  Did you know Andrew that
every little school boy in the street knows that whoever "conceives" a child is the FATHER
of that child when it is born. Why is it that you and most of Christendom does not know this
simple biological and Scriptural truth. How can ONE PERSON of your "trinity" conceive
a child, and then when it is born it is the SON OF A DIFFERENT PERSON of your trinity?
Oh, forget it: you are not interested in the Truths of God or the honesty of His Word.
Sincerely,
Ray

 
 but please if you do and decide
> not to believe in a Triune God, please do not call yourself a Christian, it
> gives true Christians a bad name.
> But now go ahead write me back and try and rip apart a faith that not even
> the Gates of Hell can stop(By the Way, You don't look like the Gates of
> Hell)
>
> Looking forward to your response,
> Andrew
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