The real journey begins once we realize (it is impressed upon us by God) that the man made traditions of physical rituals are meaningless in regard to our spiritual growth. The growth starts with this realization, coming out of the Babylonian system is not an end but a beginning. Just as it was when Jesus called Peter, James & John (the rest later of course) their calling was only the beginning of knowledge and trials (in Him) not an instantanious reward for having "made it" or for earning themselves salvation by being at the right place at the right time.
This process of purging our carnal minds by the Fire of His Spirit can and will be a period of tribulation and yet of joy, to some that may sound like the rantings of a madman but He Himself has declared His ways "strange" to our natural minds.
I believe Sandie really nailed it when she stated that her walk has just started once the "son of perdition" was revealed. This is not something we learn in man made institutions as they will continue to direct us to look everywhere outside of ourselves for where (and when) this "man" resides, when he is reigning within all the while.Here are some very pertinent points from a couple of Ray's articles. (links provided) THE BELIEVER’S JUDGMENT BY FIRE
Well, yes, it does appear that there is a judgment on the house of God, but certainly not a judgment by FIRE, is there? Doesn’t God judge non-believers with fire, but not believers? This only sounds strange to you if you have never been taught the Scriptures.
"Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you" (I Pet. 4:12).
Peter makes it sound as though going through fiery trails is the norm rather than the exception. The New Testament is filled with the fiery trials of the Saints.
Now I hope that none will be offended at my next few statements, but if so, so be it. Unless God Almighty through the purging power of His FIERY SPIRIT, is BURNING OUT the lusts and passions and vanity and haughtiness and greed and self-righteousness and laziness and weakness and hypocrisy and wickedness and pride and materialism and cynicism and depravity and carnality in your life, then Jesus Christ is not choosing you to reign with Him as the Sons of God in the Kingdom of God to bring all Heaven and Earth to repentance and salvation!
JOHN THE BAPTIST: John the Baptist said that Jesus would be baptizing repentant believers with fire.
"I indeed baptize you with water unto REPENTANCE: but He that comes after me is mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, AND WITH FIRE" (Matt. 3:11).
JESUS CHRIST:
"For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).
APOSTLE PETER:
"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it [your faith] be TRIED IN THE FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).
APOSTLE PAUL:
"Every man’s work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man’s work of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3:13).
With such noble and august witnesses, does anyone deny that the repentant, converted, dedicated, believing Christian will escape being "revealed," tried," "salted," and "baptized" by FIRE? These Scriptures are undeniable! Whatever this "fire" is, it is going to be used ON EVERYONE. These four Scriptures have the believer specifically in view, but it says and includes "EVERYONE shall be salted with FIRE," and "EVERY MAN’S WORK ... shall be revealed by FIRE."
GRACE AND JUDGMENT
"For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS ..." (Heb. 12:6).
There is no escaping it. If you are to be a "son of God" you will be chastened. Now I don’t want to pile too much on you at once here, but there’s more. As you can see from the definition above, the word "chastened" is paideuo, and is not too severe. Even if involving some punishment, the whole thrust of the word is to train, educate, discipline, instruct, etc. These are all good things not to be feared. But there is more, so we might just as well read it and get our attitudes adjusted to it. The rest of the verse:
"For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS, and [AND] ... SCOURGES every son whom He receives [or is assenting]" (Heb. 12:6)
"SCOURGES?" No, not scourging! Does God shows His love toward us by scourging us? It is absolutely necessary. Scourging is definitely even more severe and harsh than chastening.
The word "scourge" in Heb. 12:6 is from the Greek word mastigoo and here’s its definition: "to flog (literally or figuratively) -- scourge" Strong’s Greek Dictionary, page 46. And what does "flog" mean?
"flog 1. To beat severely with a whip or rod." Page 531 American heritage College Dictionary.
This word "scourge" in Heb. 12:6 which God performs on us, is the very same word found in John 19:1 where it says they took Jesus and "scourged" Him. Now then, will God literally "BEAT SEVERELY WITH A WHIP OR ROD" every son that He receives? No, not necessarily, even though they did literally do so to Paul and many other followers of Jesus Christ. Remember that the definition said it can be "literal OR figurative."
Many people have come to know Christ in their senior years, and God does not literally beat every little old lady with whips and rods when they turn to Him. However, the chastening of God’s grace which we read about in Titus 2:11 can certainly seem like a real flogging. God will chasten us until He drives out the beast in us. The beast of supposed "free will" which is really self-will does not want to leave peaceably! It takes the very presence of Jesus Christ to dispel the beast of humanistic self-determinism, commonly called "free will."
Although we are not condemned when God judges us, we nonetheless must be chastened.
"If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? But if you be without chastisement, whereof ALL are partakers, then are you ********, and NOT sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection into the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for OUR PROFIT, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but GRIEVOUS: nevertheless afterward it yields the PEACEABLE FRUIT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS unto them which are exercised thereby" (Heb. 12:7--11).
So it is essential that we accept God’s chastisement which is how He "judges" us.
The reason we are not "condemned" with the world is because we accept God’s judgment in our lives
"There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Rom. 8:1).
But can we compare the judging that believers go through with the judging that the wicked receive at the end of the age in the lake of fire. Surely there is no comparison, is there? Trust me when I say, "For there is no respect [Gk: partiality] of persons with God" (Rom. 2:11).
http://bible-truths.com/lake3.htmlTHE LIFE OF A BELIEVER
Let’s see again just what is involved in living the live of a believer:
"For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast. For we are HIS workmanship [Gk: achievement], created in Christ Jesus unto [unto what?] … unto GOOD WORKS, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10). We are not saved by OUR WORKS, but we are preordained to walk in GOD’S GOOD WORKS, nonetheless.
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3;3). Notice that Eph. 2:10 says that we are "created IN Christ." Something new happens when we are "IN" Christ. There is a NEW birth and there is a NEW creation, "Therefore if any man be IN Christ, he is a NEW CREATURE [Gk: creation]: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (II Cor. 5:17). Albeit, this new creation has its perils as we will see in the next verse.
"Yea, and ALL that will live godly in Christ Jesus [as a new and different creature] SHALL SUFFER PERSECUTION." (II Tim. 3:12). This is not just a possibility; it is an absolute PROMISE.
"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through MUCH TRIBULATION [pressure, afflictions] enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).
"For if we would JUDGE OURSELVES, we should not be judged. But when we ARE JUDGED, we are CHASTENED [Greek: paideuo, to train, educate, discipline, punish, chastise, instruct, learn, and teach] of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world [at the great white throne judgment]" (I Cor. 11:31-32).
"And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks unto you as unto children, My Son, despise not you the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of Him. For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS [Prov. 13:24] AND SCOURGES [see I Pet. 5:9] EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES. But if you be without chastisement, whereof ALL are partakers, then are you ********, and not sons" (Heb. 12:5-8). "Every man’s work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be REVEALED BY FIRE; and the fire shall try EVERY MAN’S WORK of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3;13).
"Fear NONE of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried; and you shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give you a CROWN OF LIFE" (Rev. 2:10). "To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE [eternal, immortal life]" (Rev. 2:7), "He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11), "And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give POWER OVER THE NATIONS" (Rev. 2;26), "He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment [righteousness] and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life [Christ is the book of life] but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels" (Rev. 3:5), "Him that overcomes will I make a PILLAR [a main and vital support in the very government of Almighty God] IN THE TEMPLE OF MY GOD…" (Rev. 3:12), "To him that overcomes will I grant to SIT WITH ME IN MY THRONE, even as I also overcame [see John 16:33], and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 3:21).
There we have a very brief overview of the life of a believer. Is it not obvious that the life of a believer consists of a whole lot more than just "believing" that Jesus is the Christ? God has bigger plans for the human race than just "saving" them. God can "save" chickens, but God doesn’t want chickens for sons! God wants sons that are PERFECT as He is perfect! Wouldn’t you all agree that becoming perfect might just require a whole lot more than singing gospel music once a week? Perfection requires many things that only God can perform in our lives. We are, after all, His workmanship, His achievement. Having ALL OUR WORKS tried in the fire of His Holy Spirit is no small part of becoming perfect.
http://bible-truths.com/lake6.htmlFolks, this is just the beginning, hold on tight for an incredible ride!
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe