understand

[seminole]

Okay, so I saw the pics. of that conference that just happened and Ray looks like a good guy. I went back and re-read some of the site he has and it left me a little confused again. A lot of the stuff sounds right but the abrasive words kind of over shadowed the good. maybe it's because I don't know him but I would be a little concerned about coming across that way. People read there to find answers about God and faith but with the negative it would turn me off if I didn't have God in my life.
Seminole

[GODSown1]

We AlL have GOD in our Lives,
                                       But!! I know wot ur saying n e wayZ! lol!, My Wife is a Good exsample of wot u hav sed she didnt like hw he spoke 2 pple etc..   I sort of came 2 Rays defence & sed, I think JESUS may hav spoken like this :P lol! PeaCe, Mercy, Grace.
                                       muchLOVE!! Pera

[jER]

Seminole,

...some like their bread plain (dry)...others like it buttered (smooth)...and still there are those who prefer to have a little jam (sugar coated). It may be a matter of taste, or preference. However, we all love bread (the bread of life).

I am getting thirsty, too!

- Jer

[GODSown1]

"wotacrkuP!" :D BlesS! U!,
   muchLOVE!! Pera

[skydreamers]

...some like their bread plain (dry)...others like it buttered (smooth)...and still there are those who prefer to have a little jam (sugar coated). It may be a matter of taste, or preference. However, we all love bread (the bread of life).

I am getting thirsty, too!

That was awesome Jer!

Peace,
Diana

[gmik]

Nole, this has been said before, but, notice the writers of the e mails.  Those w/ honest questions, get a sincere honest answer. Those that come after him w/ an attitude or condemnation get one of his usually witty, if not downright sassy comebacks.

If it were me, I would be crying like a baby.  I couldn't handle all the insults and curses he gets. He is definetly used by God.  Remember not all are to have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Ray does not need defending.

Nole, have you read ALL of LOF?  Lazarus?  Maybe don't even bother w/ his e mails.  Get built up by the Word.

[mari_et_pere]

Nole, I know what you mean.  I do think 90% of the people who mail him deserve to be talked to in his way because of their attitude, sometimes hateful and slanderous speech. BUT........I do agree with ya. I noticed that when, two years ago I think is when I happened on his site. I thought, "sheesh this guy is harsh." Sometimes harsh is the best way though. IF, IF it were me, I'd probably not be so harsh, but it is what it is. Personally I find a lot of truth through his answers, and entertainment also, to be honest.

Matt

[Rene]

Seminole,

Before arriving at Bible-Truths.com, I came across many "religious" websites; some appeared to be sweet as honey, and others were rather scary.  Then I stumbled onto Bible-Truths, and just as Matt stated, my first impression was that it appeared a little harsh.  However, as I was drawn in and started reading the articles, the truth of what was being said far outweighed the sarcasm that was used.  In my opinion, the revelation of truth began to justify much of the language that Ray used in "exposing those who contradict" the word of God.

The "truth" will offend many, no matter what language is being used.  Those who have "eyes to see and ears to hear" will get it.

Rene'

[Deborah-Leigh]

The Word teaches the following :

Proverbs 9 : 8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you. 9. Give instruction to a wise man and he will be yet wiser; teach a righteous man, one upright and in right standing with God and he will increase in learning.

Proverbs 10 : 17 He who heeds instruction and correction is not only himself in the way of life but also IS A WAY OF LIFE FOR OTHERS. And he who neglects or refuses reproof not only himself goes astray but also causes to err and is a path toward ruin for others. 32 The lips of the uncompromisingly righteous know and therefore utter what is acceptable, but the mouth of the wicked knows and therefore speaks only what is obstinately willful and contrary.

Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold I am laying in Zion a Stone that will MAKE MEN STUMBLE, a Rock that WILL MAKE THEM FALL; but he who believes in HIM, who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on HIM, shall NOT BE PUT TO SHAME or be DISAPPOINTED IN HIS EXPECTATIONS.

So what do we expect?...

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[jER]

Arcturus wise points, indeed!

Love you -Jer (wiser with greater understanding, everyday that passes).

[Deborah-Leigh]

Jer

Isaiah wrote : Isa 61 : 11 For as surely as the earth brings forth its shoots, and as a garden causes what is sown in it to spring forth, so surely the Lord God WILL CAUSE rightness and justice and praise to spring forth before all the nations through the SELF-FULFILLING POWER OF HIS WORD.

It is good and a giift from Him to rely, cling to and trust in HIS Word at all times everywhere and anywhere!

Peace to you brother

Arcturus

[seminole]

I get what you are saying. I would go upside somebody's head if they were standing before me saying some of the things he gets. I have read the LOF and most others. It still seems harsh and cold to me. I know a lot of O.T. is harsh and Jesus went off on some people but more than that Jesus was kind and loving more than harsh. I just wonder if the "harshness" in the Scripture is focused on more than the loving kindness.
Hey, before anybody jumps me, I know it's not right to go upside somebody's head and I do try in my daily life to keep my temper in check.
Seminole

[Deborah-Leigh]

Have you listened to the Love audio Seminole?

The Church does not teach love as is expressed and demonstrated by Christ. The Church teaches a feel good say nothing mean less kind of sentimentality that is luke warm and will be spat out by the Lord. Broad is the way and many get lost in it!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[seminole]

I can't listen to audio. I don't know why I just can't make it work so all I can do is read. He writes a lot of good stuff but it kind of turns me to read the put downs. He has the right to write whatever he chooses as we all have the right to think , study what we believe.
Nole

[Deborah-Leigh]

Nole you say:
I can't listen to audio.

Fair comment. The Love Audio is actually transcribed so you should go and perhaps "study" and "think" about what it teaches. It is deep and very edifying. You might get something out of it. 

I can't listen to audio. I don't know why I just can't make it work so all I can do is read. He writes a lot of good stuff

I think you will be in like mind here in the Forum on that observation!

but it kind of turns me to read the put downs.

No one likes to be put down.  I do think the persons you perceive Ray to be "putting down" are blessed to have heard the gutsy scriptural truth perhaps for the first time in their lives. Can you imagine if Jesus comes and the people who you think should be handled with care see Ray and ask him "Why didn't you TELL ME! Now I have to go through the LOF!"

Chastisement and correction and rebuke are healthier than withholding Gods ways from the lost. In fact there is judgment and correction for with holding the truth if you have it and do not give it! Ray is doubly accountable because he is a Teacher. His example is sterling and I think he will complete his race the way he is going! I for one don't want to see Ray go soft or luke warm. Hot and cold is fine!   

He has the right to write whatever he chooses

Yes. Well this is his site and we are students in the Forum where we are supposed to be like minded and in agreement with our Teacher. If not then we have the right to think and study what we believe elsewhere not because we have the right to think and study what we believe but because this Forum has rules of conduct. This is not unlike any gathering I know of. Even the body of Christ is fit together where the hand and the foot and the eye and the ear work through the Head in harmony. Our head is Christ here.

as we all have the right to think , study what we believe.

I can not help but think to ask you....have you been hurt or abused by authority and rules? If so, I can say we have that in common!

Nole

Peace to you
Arcturus

[jER]

Hi Nole...

Gifts are given to all, in accordance to the Lord's choosing for His Purpose, and sometimes we may have the identical gift(s) as another, but, used for a different purpose.

That is one of the reasons - that I had posted: Lord, what is it you want me to do?
Re: Is all the praying we do in public biblical?

Ray seems to be using his gift(s), according to the purpose  - that has been given him.

Yours, mine and ours (sounds like a blended family) may well be different.

In His Love and mine...your brother - Jer

[Evan600]

Seminole,

Before arriving at Bible-Truths.com, I came across many "religious" websites; some appeared to be sweet as honey, and others were rather scary.  Then I stumbled onto Bible-Truths, and just as Matt stated, my first impression was that it appeared a little harsh.  However, as I was drawn in and started reading the articles, the truth of what was being said far outweighed the sarcasm that was used.  In my opinion, the revelation of truth began to justify much of the language that Ray used in "exposing those who contradict" the word of God.

The "truth" will offend many, no matter what language is being used.  Those who have "eyes to see and ears to hear" will get it.

Rene'

I feel you here Rene'!!


- Jason

[Robert]

Hi Seminole, just picking up on what you wrote about 'abrasive words'. I agree with you. I think there is a risk by that type of reply to those who don't go along with what they teach exactly. For example, a few years ago I read a lot of Peter Ruckman material, but his abrasive style eventually made me question wether this man had the spirit of Christ, and I found that he didn't. Later I followed Gary North, and the same conclusion came through. To date, I like Ray's teaching, but no man can have all the truth or follow Christ to perfection, we are only members of the body.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Just some things to consider....

There are some who Christ will spit out for being lukewarm....out of His body!

Rev 3 : 16 So, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, (Does this not mean to include those who never commite to anything, the on the fence sitters....that fuzzy warm kind who never makes a stand...who runs with the fox and hunts with the hounds type...never saying anything to upset anyone, the slack shirker ....just that kind who is not hot or cold or risking rejection and inviting persecution from those who feel the heat or the bite of the cold words of admonishment, correction and exhortation which members of the body are supposed to do!...to build up and remove duplicity and doublemindedness which Ray does with great gusto! Christ says...) I will spew you out of my mouth. ( MOUTH! ...part of the body no? And spew...anyone care to look up what that means in the dictionary or better still on e-sword?)

Also there is a distinction between being "only members" and those Christ has given to the body. The student is not greater than the master. Here is what Paul taught the Ephesians 4 : 11 He, (CHRIST NO LESS) has HIMSELF APPOINTED and GAVE men to us (US...who are..."only the members of the body" of which Paul included himself as also being a member of this privileged place) some to be apostles, special messengers, some prophets, inspired preachers and expounders, some evangelists, preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries, some pastors, shepherds of His flock and TEACHERS ... of which Ray, as I see it fits ALL of these categories!

Mark 9 : 40,41 For who is not against us is for us. 41 For I tell you truly, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to and bear the name of Christ will by no means fail to get his reward.

1 Thes 5 : 11 Therefore encourage, admonish, exhort one another and edify, strengthen and build up one another, just as you are doing. 12 Now we beseech you, brethren, get to know those who labor among you, recognize them for what they are, acknowledge and appreciate and respect them all - your leaders who are over you in the Lord and those who warn and kindly reprove and exhort you. 13 And hold them in very high and most affectionate esteem in intelligent and sympathetic appreciation of their work. Be at peace among your selves. 14 And we earnestly beseech you, brethren, admonish, warn and seriously advise those who are out of line....

That out of line part, is the real tester! It is much easier to compliment than to admonish! Compliments draw approval, admonishment is more risky! More hot to handle!

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Kat]

Hi Arcturus,

I can hear what your saying.  We can not be complacent, but always seeking to understand the truth.  This scripture is a warning to us.

Rev 3:16  So because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

To be among the chosen you have to go beyond what is comfortable and easy. 

Phi 1:9  And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment,
v. 10  so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ,

discernment
G144
aisthēsis-- perception, that is, (figuratively) discernment: - judgment.

We need to come to discern the truth.

discern--to come to know, reconize or understand(discern) the basic issue. Discern right from wrong. Webster's

mery, peace, and love
Kat