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Author Topic: Tithing....Read  (Read 2947 times)

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Craig

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Tithing....Read
« on: June 07, 2007, 06:36:03 PM »

From: Adam

> I didn't see in any of your writing anything about Luke 11:42. Let me
> enlighten you.
>
> Luke 11:42 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint,
> rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the
> love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former
> undone.
>
> Let me speak the truth in love: you are not Matthew, Paul, Peter or Jesus.
> These men walked with Jesus and were given an anointing to fulfill their God
> given role and God's spirit spoke through them to write the bible.
>
> Do everyone a favor, including yourself, and get some schooling under your
> belt to validate what you say is God speaking to you. If not, you will find
> yourself as the next Joseph Smith starting a cult.
>
> God Bless!
>

Dear Adam:  You didn't actually READ my article on tithing, did you. Here is what
you stated was missing from my paper (taken directly from my paper), and NO, don't
try to "enlighten me" on anything. You have not a clue as to what tithing was all about:


CHRIST’S ONLY TWO EXAMPLES OF TITHERS

Paul was inspired by God's Holy Spirit to declare that "God loves a cheerful giver" (II Cor.9:7). Why was not Paul inspired by God’s Holy Spirit to declare that, "God loves a cheerful tithe-payer?" In fact, why does not Paul mention the words tithe, tithes, or tithing in any of His thirteen epistles—not once? (Paul did not write the book of Hebrews, II Thes. 3:17). Why does not Peter, James, John, or Jude mention tithing in any of their epistles? Why didn’t the early Christian Fathers mention tithing as a doctrine of the New Testament Church? Therefore, why are innumerable thousands of evangelists, theologians, teachers, preachers, and clergymen teaching the world that if they don’t tithe ten percent of their salaries, that God will curse them with a curse?

The only two times in the New Testament that Jesus mentions tithing is in condemnation of the Pharisees. At the time of Jesus’ ministry there was a temple and there was a Levitic Priesthood, hence tithing was still in effect for the Jews. Hear now the only words ever recorded of Jesus mentioning tithes:

   1.

      "But WOE [deep distress, misery, grief, misfortune, calamity, sorrow, dismay] unto you Pharisees! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs [some had farms; some had gardens], and pass over JUDGMENT and the LOVE OF GOD: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone" (Luke 11:42).
       
      And just what kind of a blessing did Jesus pronounce on these Pharisees for their "tithe of the mint and herbs"? No blessing, just a startling "WOE"!
   2.

      "And the Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God… I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess" (Luke 18:12).

And just what kind of a blessing did Jesus pronounced on this Pharisee for his "tithe"?

No blessing, no justification, just a promise that people like him will be "abased" (Ver. 14).

What does being an utter hypocrite and passing over "Judgment and the Love of God" have to do with "tithing?" That’s the whole point. These gross sins have virtually nothing to do with tithing!

Tithing to Jesus was so absolutely insignificant to the gross sins of failing to properly Judge the widows and orphans and fatherless and poor, and to not show any Love of God toward them. Tithing was the smallest most inconsequential thing Christ could think of to show the utter hypocrisy of this Pharisees. They were very meticulous about tithing (a law of virtually no spiritual consequence what so ever), and yet… and YET they would do the tithe thing and neglect judgment, love and mercy.

Now please don’t all write me at once telling me that I have missed the whole point of these two sets of Scripture by not realizing that it was their very gross sins that will bring "woes’ and "abasements" on them, and not that they are being condemned for what they did do correctly, namely "tithe." That is quite true. However, it appears that most have missed the very reason why Jesus gives two examples of two Phariees, who were gross sinners deserving the worst possible chastisements, and then says that they were both tithe-payers.

Christ’s attention to the fact that they were both meticulous tithe-payers, proved the hypocrisy of these two Pharisees. They would pay strict attention to very miner details of a law, and yet totally abandon a very reason and purpose for the whole existence of the law—LOVE, MERCY, JUDGMENT.

The Law of Moses regarding tithing produce from the land was still in effect during Christ’s ministry, and therefore, all of the nation of Israel who had land were to tithe from their land and give it to the Priests and Levites, strangers, fatherless, widows, poor, and even consume some of it themselves at God’s annual festivals. However, this system with its laws and temple were all part of the original church of God in the wilderness. Jesus, however, did not tithe. Likewise, His apostles, did not tithe. Furthermore, neither Jesus, nor His Apostles, nor Paul, ever taught new Christian converts to the newly established Church of Christ, to tithe to this new church!

Here then is the bottom line: Neither, Jesus nor His apostles tithed themselves or taught tithing to others. And within a generation God pronounced to the entire world by the total destruction of both the nation of Judah, and their city of Jerusalem with its temple, that the church established in the wilderness, was now superseded by the Church of Christ. The nation of Israel was gone, the temple was gone, the priests were gone, the Levites were gone, and concerning the very Law of Moses containing the law of tithing, we read this:

    "In that he says, A NEW covenant, He has made the first OLD. Now that which DECAYS and waxes OLD is ready to VANISH AWAY" (Heb. 8:13).

God be with you,
Ray
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Craig

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Re: Tithing....Read
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2007, 06:38:55 PM »

FROM:  Pastor Adam
> Here is a couple of your problems. Your arguments are based on silence.
> Just because the bible doesn't record Jesus or any of the other disciples
> tithing doesn't mean they didn't. Are you to say that Jesus was gay because
> the bible doesn't say he wasn't?
>
> Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to abolish it. In other words he raised
> the bar. For example, Jesus said lusting was adultery of the heart. In the
> new testament Jesus raises the bar pretty much on everything. Whether or
> not tithing is required in the new testament is irrelevantly. If you love
> Jesus you will give to the church. Your argument about sacrifices and the
> OT is a little weak. Jesus was the ultimate Sacrifice, that's why we don't
> sacrifice anymore. I don't see an ultimate tithe in the OT to indicate we
> should stop tithing.
>
> Jesu s talks about money more in the new testament than anything else. What
> do you think would happen if Christians stopped tithing?
>
> You are right, i didn't read your whole article on tithing. I usually don't
> read a lot of fiction.
>
> Ray i am not trying to be harsh. You are not a modern day Paul or Peter.
> You are doing more harm than good with your articles. Try fulfilling the
> two greatest commandments. Put your time and energy into those, i promise
> you will have a much greater return.
>
> Pastor Adam


    Dear Pastor Adam:

    I'm not trying to be harsh either, Pastor Adam,  but you have not a clue as to what you are talking about.  You ridicule you know not what.  I will make a few comments concerning the things out of your own mouth, so as to not speculate on the intent of your heart.

    First, you stated that I did not mention the two examples of Jesus regarding tithing. I in return copied and pastied straight from my article a full explanation of those two examples.  Did you then acknowledge that I did indeed cover them in my paper?  NO, no you didn't. You rather countered with, "I usually don't read a lot of FICTION."  You were wrong; I proved you wrong, but rather than acknowledge it, you come back with a psychological slam by suggesting that my paper is "fiction."  Have you to this date so much as quoted on single statement from my paper and proved it wrong with at least two Scriptures?  NO, no you haven/t. And why is that?  Because you can't.  With all the hermeneutical and exegetical "god of context" nonsense you use to teach your heresies, you could not fault one single statement in my tithing paper.

    You foolishly state:  "Whether or not tithing is required in the new testament is irrelevant." Irrelevant?  Irrelevant?  IRRELEVANT?  I have a pile of emails in my drawer extending back over the years from elderly people (especially widows) and their children and their relatives, in which I am informed of the horrible hardships many of these people faced while trying to be obedient to the commands of their pastors to TITHE.

    Many have gone without sufficient food, clothing, medicine, and even neglecting utility bills, so that they could avoid being "CURSED WITH A CURSE" from Almighty God should they fail to give ten percent of their gross income to their pastor.  Never mind the fact that in the Hebrew it is God stating that Israel "CURSED" HIM, not that He cursed Israel:  "With a curse you curse Me, and Me you are defrauding--the nation, all of it."

    Many churches (including the most visible form of "Christianity"--Televangelists) teach that tithing is "a LAW of Almighty God," that is still binding on New Testament Believers, and the failure to give your pastor ten percent of your gross annual income will result in being "CURSED WITH A CURSE," or even far worse. If tithing is a law, and the breaking of God's law is sin, and the penalty of sin according to these same Christian pastors, is not "death" (Rom. 6:23),  but rather LIFE in some eternal hellhole of torture in literal fire.   How many little old widow ladies do you know, Pastor Adam, who look forward to being tortured in literal fire of the Christian hell for trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of quadrillions of centuries without relief, without hope, burning in pain that far exceeds total insanity, for ALL ETERNITY?  HUH?

    God rush the day when this evil doctrine of demons is brought to justice in God's divine lake of purging FIRE.  The untold evil and misery that people like you, Pastor Adams,  have brought upon weak and infirmed grandmothers and grandfathers through the centuries by insisting that tithing IS for the Church of Christ,  is a stench that has reached to the highest heavens.  Irrelevant?  You will see how irrelevant this doctrine of fraudulently exacting MONEY from Believers under a New Covenant pretense of law, is one day.  What would happen to the church if people stopped tithing, you ask?  Well for one thing, pastors would have to start working for a living.  Oh forbid such a fate.   But instead of hanging you head in utter shame over such heresies, you wear them with pride like badge of honor. Unbelievable.

    You falsely state that my proof against tithing money under the New Covenant rests of "silence."  Oh really?  No, not in silence. Actually these truths are PLAINLY told in screaming words (for those who have an ear to hear) exactly how Jesus, Peter, and Paul financed their ministry:

    Jesus received his financing from: "Mary Magdalene...and Joana the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna and MANY OTHERS, which ministered unto Him of their [of their WHAT?  Of their 'tithes?' I speak as a fool]...OF THEIR SUBSTANCE [Gk: possessions, goods]"  (Luke 8:2-3).  Jesus neither taught tithing to His Church, neither did He collect tithes for His Church.

    Peter:  "And the continued steadfastly in the APOSTLES' [Peter, James, John and the rest] doctrine and fellowship...and all that believed were together, and had all things common...and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [all to Peter? to the apostles ONLY? No, "to ALL"] as EVERY MAN had need"  (Acts 2:41-45).  Peter neither taught tithing to Christ's Church, neither did he collect tithes for Christ's Church.

    Paul:  "For ye remember, brethren, our LABOUR and travail: for LABOURING NIGHT AND DAY, because we would NOT be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God"  (I Thes. 2:9)  "Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto MY NECESSITIES, and to them that were with me" (Acts 20:34 and a dozen more).  Paul suffered great want on many occasions because he seldom took from the congregations even his necessities. Paul would have never gone without as he so often did, had he been collecting ten percent of the gross national product of all the congregations of ASIA!  Give me a break, Pastor Adams.  I don't suppose you ever considered for one moment, trusting God to supply your needs rather than resurrecting and perverting the Old Testament tithing law.

    I have shown you dozens and dozens and dozens of Scriptures in my paper proving what tithing was and what tithing was not, and you call it "FICTION."   You despise the Word of God!

    Again you state:  "Your argument about sacrifices and the OT is a little weak. Jesus was the ultimate Sacrifice, that's why we don't sacrifice anymore. I don't see an ultimate tithe in the OT to indicate we should stop tithing."

    Of course you don't see it--you are as spiritually blind as a bat.  So my argument about sacrifices no longer being in force today is "a little weak: is it?  Actually it was way too strong for you to counter. Do you think that I am uninformed as the Jesus being our "ultimate Sacrifice?"  It is you who shot yourself in your own foot with that statement. You bet Jesus is our ultimate Sacrifice, but it doesn't end there. You obviously missed the part of Jesus now becoming (in place of the tithe collecting Levites) OUR HIGH AND ONLY PRIEST (Heb. 3:1; 4:14;  7:12-28)!   And Jesus Who is "The SAME yesterday, today, and for ever" did not and does not collect TITHE MONEY for His Church.

      Besides, all true Believers are now ALSO PRIESTS (I Peter 2:9), which means your congregation has just as much authority to take TITHES OF YOU, Pastor Adam, as you do from them. Put that in your hermetical pipe and smoke it.

    One other point you would do well to consider, and that is that Jesus Christ is now also the "ultimate" Judge, and He will judge all such heresy as "money tithing" in the name of His Church (Acts 17:31).

    Now for your crowing blasphemy:  "Just because the bible doesn't record Jesus or any of the other disciples tithing doesn't mean they didn't. Are you to say that Jesus was gay because  the bible doesn't say he wasn't?

    You listen now, Pastor Adams, and you listen good:  Don't you try to put that filthy-minded blasphemy into my mouth, you hypocrite.  I have never ever ever ever entertained such a demeaning and disgusting example as to suggest that because the Bible doesn't say contrary, we could say that Jesus Christ was a homosexual!  You could have used a thousand different example. What ever possessed [and I do believe that is the correct word] you to suggest such an utterly blasphemous example?  You are over-the-top!  Well I hope you enjoy your "tithe money," because you have your reward, and unless or until you bitterly repent of not only your damnable tithing heresy, but also your filthy mouth, you WILL be reading this email anew in front of your Judge.

    Cordially yours,

    L. Ray Smith

    PS   Oops, missed one:  "Jesus talks about money more in the new testament than anything else." Oh really?  So now to add insult to injury, you are also a blatant liar.  I think I'll post this on our site.


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