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Author Topic: Job and the Free Will Myth!  (Read 2104 times)

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Deborah-Leigh

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Job and the Free Will Myth!
« on: June 08, 2007, 03:13:39 PM »



Jobs “friends” that were rebuked by God, talked to Job in much the same way as the  Church talks. It is amazing to see the similarity!  The reason why the “friends” of Job spoke to him in the way that they did, is because it is transparently obvious that they believed in free will and they lectured and reprimanded Job because of their confidence in what they assumed was true thinking that man and Job have free choice. By stark contrast, Job’s rebuttal of his “friends” advice shows to me that Job knew that free will is a myth and false teaching. he may not have articulated it this way but his dialogue shows the understanding he had because out of the abundance of Job's heart he spoke and his words were true!

I see the Myth of Free Will demonstrated in the following Scripture for example that the Church can not see or comprehend and excuse with statements like:

Eliphaz says to Job 22: vs 23 If YOU RETURN to the Almighty (John 15:16 YOU have NOT chosen ME but I have chosen YOU…)you will be built up if you put away unrighteousness far from your tents.

Eliphaz believes if man does that then this will happen. Sound like prosperity preaching? Not only does this belief err, but it makes God into a slot machine, or a stark raving idiot and opponent of man in a game that man can beat God and make God into his own servant.

There is so much error in the way these friends thought and spoke and advised Job who knew his friends were clueless. Job challenged his friends to think and Job asked them 13:8 Will you speak unrighteously for God and talk deceitfully for Him?


Job 32:5  When Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of these three men, then his wrath was kindled.
 
The “friends” miss the point  of Jobs question entirely as do many who profess…”The Lord TOLD ME….do this or do that ” And then follows the biggest lot of hogwash!…

Job tells his “friends” 13: 12 Your memorable sayings and proverbs of ashes, valueless; your defenses are of clay and will crumble.

Did they get it? Not a chance! On the contrary, they were hushed into silence by the rebuttals of Job’s intimidating remarks.

This sets the stage for Elihu to introduce himself to speak to Job not in the manner by which the three have already spoken themselves into a corner of speechlessness before self righteous Job. To avert the possibility that they might believe themselves to have found out wisdom, Elihu says to them : Job 32:13  that you do not say, We have found out wisdom. God has pushed him down, not man.

God confirmed Job’s understanding that fits well with Rays teaching on the Myth of Free will, and against the three friends, not against Elihu, God affirms,

Job 42:7 My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me the thing that is right, as My servant Job HAS!

Reading the book of Job with the comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God 's Sovereignty expressed in the teachings that expose the MYTH of Free Will  is a real treat. The book of Job offers insights into what the Church is continually saying and its tactics against those who know the truth and find no comfort.

Job asked his friends How, then can you comfort me with empty and futile words, since in your replies there lurks falsehood?

Job knew his friends didn't get it yet he was not about to lead them in prayer to God for them. God had to make that happen!
Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 10:02:36 AM by Arcturus »
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mari_et_pere

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Re: Job and the Free Will Myth!
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2007, 03:29:38 PM »

Arcturus, I love the book of Job! His friends are rebuking him and telling him it's all his fault. He says NO! Don't you see? This is God! This is His will. Why? I do not know, but it's God. God started this and God will finish this, and I'll remain faithful whether I'm sick or not, whether I live or die tomorrow is all up to God!

Job is a great book to study.

(if you can get past the truthfully stated scritures that aren't statements of truth.  :o ??? ??? ::) >:( :() j/k of course!

Matt
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Job and the Free Will Myth!
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2007, 08:36:50 PM »

This is an excellent study Arcturus and I thank you for bringing it to attention.  :)

Anyone who champions the belief of mankinds possession of Free Will, have clearly never read or ignored the following words of God. For here Christ in the form of Jehovah challenges Job to: 

Job 40:7 “Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.

8 “Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

9 Do you have an arm like God's,
and can your voice thunder like his?

10 Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,
and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.

11 Unleash the fury of your wrath,
look at every proud man and bring him low,

12 look at every proud man and humble him,
crush the wicked where they stand.

13 Bury them all in the dust together;
shroud their faces in the grave.

14 Then I myself will admit to you
that your own right hand can save you.
 

Pretty powerful stuff. ;D Is this challenge not also made to all mankind? Of course it is. :)

So how did Job respond?

Job 42:1  Then Job replied to the Lord:
 
2 “I know that you can do all things;
no plan of yours can be thwarted.


3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.


4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’

5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.


6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.”
   

Job knew full well that God controls all things, and I especially liked the challenge that God himself made: Do all this and...." Then I myself will admit to you that your own right hand can save you."

This aligns perfectly with the words of Paul

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast

Love to you in Christ,
Darren
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Job and the Free Will Myth!
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2007, 09:04:21 PM »

Great topic!  I love Job too.

For years I believed that when the Sons of God gathered together and Satan was amongst them meant....Adam was a Son of God from this planet, and all the rest were Sons of God from other planets!!! :-X

Then, of course, when Job said that God gives and God takes away...oh no no no...Job was wrong when he said that and the writer just records that...

When I came to BT is was w/ great joy that I reread the book of Job.  Who am I indeed!!!!! Job 42:3 is awesome. And I think we all have to have the experience of Job 42:6.
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jER

  • Guest
Re: Job and the Free Will Myth!
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2007, 03:19:33 AM »

The Church of Christ knows that Judgment is for all, however; the church of the world believes that God’s Judgments are not for the righteous, but only for the wicked.
Therefore, they will say, "It is a result of your sin."

And, we know that God works all things…for the good…according to His Purpose!
At the very least, this is my understanding of Job.

Thanks for your insights, enjoyed all of them.

- Jer
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Job and the Free Will Myth!
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2007, 05:52:21 AM »

I have never heard any Preacher explain WHY God rebuked the statements made to Job by his "friends".
Perhaps because to explain it you have to know Free will is a Myth! ;D

In fact I have never heard any Preacher explain WHY Jobs statements were correct in Gods eyes! Same reason. To do so ushers in the contrast between the friends who were holier than thou and Job who was right about God! You can not explain that one unless you know that free will is a myth and idol of the wicked heart!

If you read what Jobs friends said to Job there is so much evidence that they believe in free will. The book of Job demolishes the error contained in the deception and false teachings that arise from resistance to God as Sovereign and man as clay in His hands. It shakes loose the error in believing in free will!

Job knew this fact but he could not persuade his friends of this truth and their error. God did that part!... But Job did try to explain to them....Job 19 : 6 KNOW THAT God has overthrown and put me into the wrong and has closed His net about me. HE HAS walled up my way so that I cannot pass, and HE HAS set darkness upon my paths. 9 HE HAS stripped me of my glory and taken the crown from my head. 10. HE HAS broken me down on every side, and I am gone; my hope has HE pulled up like a tree. 11. HE HAS also kindled HIS wrath against me, and HE counts me as one of His adversaries. (I think that is where Job slipped up....Job was not big enough for God to count him as an adversary. Will the potter consider that the clay is an adversary? ;D....God corrected this ignorance in His confrontation with Job that Darren submitted for consideration. Job knew God was Sovereign and God tweaked Job in the end to realise that God is not only Sovereign Responsible, Love and Wisdom but that he, Job is accountable! We are all accountable and we all will answer to God!)

So Job already knew that mortal man can not be right in front of God. Why did he think he was big enough to be an adversary? For me this was part of the darkened counsel of words without knowledge that God corrected Job for alledging. Yet there was something else about Job that God corrected.

Job knew very well what God's methods are. He asked...Job 21 : 29 Have you not asked those who travel this way, and DO YOU NOT ACCEPT their testimony and EVIDENCES - 30 That the evil man is now spared in the day of calamity and destruction and they are led forth and away on the day of God's wrath.
Here we see that Job KNEW Gods methods but he did not understand God's methods and he was dismayed by God's ways. He lamented and cried and whaled and waxed and waned into sorrow of his own knowledge without understanding! God set him straight! 8)

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)



« Last Edit: June 09, 2007, 06:13:39 AM by Arcturus »
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