How did it get started?

[seminole]

I was reading someof the e-mails to Ray and wondered how this whole thing started? When and how did Bible-Truths.com start up? How did Ray's site start up? Who originated it? I read a good bit before joining and don't see many names that were there back when I started reading. In one of the e-mails Ray made some comment about "taking Ray Smith down" in reference to what the person wrote. Those who personally know him, is he happy to speak badly of people or is it a defensive thing for himself? Just wondering. E-mails got me thinking about it.
Nole

[fe32k]

Listen to one of the Nashville Audio, he says it all there. Can't remember which one, sorry.

[Kat]

Hi seminole,

I have been attending Ray's Bible studies for over a year.  I will say, he is a very friendly person.  He opens his home to all those who would like to come to the Bible study and you can talk to him personally there.  He has always made me feel welcomed and has never spoken down to me.  He is out spoken as you can see, and he does have a sense of humor.  I consider him a dear friend, like a brother.

I believe he mentioned in the last Bible study just how BibleTruths got started.  He heard a sermon by James Kennedy and John Hagee about the same time, on hell.  So he wrote up the letters and sent them off to them.  I think it was Dennis (His web master) who got him to put his letters up on a website.  That was about 2000.  And He has been adding the articles he has on there since then. 
He is very serious about this truth.  He spends most of his time at the computer writing these articles.  And as far as I know he lives what he preaches.
He has always answers all his emails himself, sooner or later   
I think he answers his emails by the way they present themselves to him.  If they try to use the scripture to back up their heresy, then he will put them in their place.  He does not sugarcoat his answers, to people that try to stand up for the untruths that the church teaches.  And he has given a fair offer to all that read his site, it they find something wrong that he is teaching, show him 2 scriptures that prove it and he will change it.  None have done this.
Now I have seen him show a lot of kindness to the people that thank him for his site. 

I was not here when the forum started, I'm the newest moderator.  I guess I've been particpating here for about 10 mons., and I love being a part of this fellowship 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[hillsbororiver]

Kat's answer pretty much sums it up. Ray wrote the Kennedy and Hagee letters and Dennis thought it would be a good idea to make them available online. (Thanks Dennis)

Maybe if Dennis has the time and inclination he could write a little synopsis on how it started.

Sorry to put you on the spot Dennis! 

Joe

[skydreamers]

Hey Nole,

Ray sometimes talks about his history in some of his audios.  I believe it was Dennis' idea to start the website and he funded it for quite some time.  Since then it seems they operate on faith based on the "cheerful giving" of bibletruth supporters.  Ray may seem to you to come across as harsh at times, but it's not like he hasn't paid his dues in the suffering department.  He lost his son at 7 years old from a mosquito bite!  How tragically bizarre is that?! 

The word of truth is a double edged sword.  In this carnal state, the truth hurts.  I don't mind Ray's tactics.  He has his own unique personality and humor that not everyone is going to get, but I appreciate his honesty.  Personally, I have experienced some who teach with prettier and more comfortable words, and that drew me in at first, until I found out how empty the teachings were. 

With Ray, I was relieved at his openess and willingness to be upfront about the garbage being taught out there.  It seems to me he has come through enough in his lifetime, that he just doesn't waste time anymore in coming to the point.  There are hundreds of people who have been blessed by his ministry, despite his approach.  From what I remember him saying, the website is somewhere in the top percent of websites visited.  Can't remember the exact statistic.

I don't think he is "happy to speak badly of people", nor does he have any reason to be "defensive".  It seems to me that in many of the 'attacking' emails that Ray gets, the people are not interested in the truth, and perhaps by Ray's approach they may get rattled out of their "self-righteousness".  So, some find his approach refreshing and eye-opening, and others find it abrasive and harsh.  But regardless of our personal opinions, what of the truths he is teaching?  Isn't that more important? 

Besides a few on the forum who know him personally and can testify to his character, most of us don't know the man other than his writings/audios.  This is the world of the internet.

I got caught up a few years back in something called the "Pauline conspiracy".  There are Christians out there who claim that Paul is a false prophet based on his writings, and they write some pretty intricate scripture filled arguments.  It had my head spinning for a time, and I had trouble reading Paul's writings for a time and could only see his "harshness" and inconsistencies.  I got past it, and now his writings are a source of comfort and truth.  (Ray actually helped a lot  in that area).

So my point is, that at the end of the day, we can only trust God to show us the truth in anyone's writings.  If you've come to a place where you believe Ray writes  about the truths as God has shown him, than his personality is secondary.  Don't let his mannerisms distract you from the treasures he can show you.

Peace,
Diana   

[YellowStone]

That was beautifully written Diana 

I have not spoken directly with Ray, but have emailed him several times and he has always been very polite and couteous.

As with everything, there is a time and a place for all things; it's not as much about knowing them than it is, knowing when to use them. Ray can be as gentle as a lamb when he needs.

This to me is VERY important, for his words and tone taken in context are befitting the role he has chosen. Truthful  One does not need to speak like Ray to have the Spirit of Truth and feel saddened or perhaps shameful for being unable. Although we are all members of the same body of Christ, we do not all have the same roles.

Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

But what we all are without doubt is, ambassadors to God and his Truth; something not one of us should ever forget. It is my understanding that Christ himself only used a scathing tone to a very select few, and then only on occasion.

Here is a good example of a time when Christs speech was not scathing, even though he used the word "hypocrites." We must assume that he sopke calmly, because there is no hint of him raising his voice, or stepping forward aggressively. This is not to say that he didn't, just that it is worthy to note it wasn't recorded.

Mat 22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in [his] talk.

Mat 22:16  And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any [man]: for thou regardest not the person of men.

Mat 22:17  Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

Mat 22:18  But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, [ye] hypocrites?

Mat 22:19  Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

Mat 22:20  And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription?  

Mat 22:21  They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Mat 22:22  When they had heard [these words], they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

Love to you in Christ,

Your Brother,
Darren

[eggi]

I remember that late afternoon when I clicked on the bible-truths ad, and after I started reading I stayed up until very late, just couldn't stop reading... I experienced something wonderful that evening and night. As I read I found the style of writing refreshing, crystal clear and more than anything, it was full of love for all humanity. Yes, it contained some strong condemnations of the beliefs of others, but nevertheless I could see that there was love behind every statement. When I finished reading that night I went to bed crying, crying of happiness. God had started to reveal Himself to me.

Yes, the truths can hurt, but that hurting is good for us. That's why Ray can answer as he does. "Let's just love and accept one another" might seem good for the moment, but it doesn't help us in the long run.

God bless you,
Eirik

[gmik]

Good words Diana, Darren & Eirik...I agree

[jER]

Ditto...ditto...ditto...ditto...ditto...    "Just avoiding repetition", and could not have said it any better!

A friend in Christ - jER

[seminole]

Man that was tough about Ray's son! Someone( don't remember who) ask me if I had been hurt in another thread. Maybe that is part of why Ray comes across as he does. He has been hurt.  I can't listen to audio. I can't get it to work!  Back to the point though we have all been hurt at some time or another . Does that give us the right to be less than courteous even if there is disagreement?

[josh]

Seminole,

Let me first say that I'm not a moderator... and I don't want to pretend to be one, but I have been a member of this forum for quite some time now, going on a year now I believe.

It seems like many of the questions that are asked here have usually been asked before at some time in the past... stick around long enough and you'll see the cycle of questions for yourself.

The question you have posed concerning whether Ray is rude or "less than courteous" in his email responses is one I have seen at least a dozen times and it never ends with a positive result.

Usually, several forum members will come to Ray's defense saying that they have met him personally or know biblical reasons for Ray response style, others will link to Ray's You Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes! paper or the LOF series... others will agree, Ray has no right to respond the way that he does and at the end of it all we have is division among the body.

It's obvious you already have made up you mind about the way that Ray responds... you state:

Man that was tough about Ray's son! Someone( don't remember who) ask me if I had been hurt in another thread. Maybe that is part of why Ray comes across as he does. He has been hurt.  I can't listen to audio. I can't get it to work!  Back to the point though we have all been hurt at some time or another . Does that give us the right to be less than courteous even if there is disagreement?

Let me suggest that if you have a problem with the way Ray addresses those who email him, take it up with him personally and let him speak for himself... rather then bringing it up here where I guarantee no one can answer for Ray or why he does what he does better than himself.

His email address is located on the bottom portion of the main page, www.bible-truths.com.

God's Peace
Josh

[Dennis Vogel]

Kat's answer pretty much sums it up. Ray wrote the Kennedy and Hagee letters and Dennis thought it would be a good idea to make them available online. (Thanks Dennis)

Maybe if Dennis has the time and inclination he could write a little synopsis on how it started.

Sorry to put you on the spot Dennis! 

Joe

Like you said Joe, Ray wrote the Kennedy and Hagee letters and I thought they belonged on the Internet and started bible-truths.com. I felt lucky to get the URL bible-truths.com. Now we own bibletruths.com too.

I remember when the first few emails started arriving (many of the emails near the top of the homepage are still from the first year) and how cool that was.

Here is what the site looked like that first year: http://web.archive.org/web/20010405154754/http://bible-truths.com/

My, how we have grown.

Dennis

[YellowStone]

Thanks Dennis for posting the Archived site.

It has grown and will continue to I am sure.

Darren

[gmik]

Cool Dennis thanks!

Josh, you are so right about the cycle of questions.

[GODSown1]

yep! I agree! Wholeheartedly! wit alL, its wot Ray Preaches d@ matters!, WelL isnt it?? he cant help da way he is lol! GOD has made him dis way, so he could b used in da way GOD wanted, wants otherwise it wouldve been sumbody else n e wayZ!, GO!! Ray!! lol!
               much muchLOVE!! Pera

ps. oH! Yes! Thank U 2 Dennis sO much, GOD is so GOOD!

[gmik]

Amen Pera!

[mari_et_pere]

I think I found bible truths sometime around August of 2005. Back then the "forum" was a simple Yahoo group! Shortly after it moved where it is now I got caught up in "life" and working way too much, and didn't post for quite some time. Eventually I came back, but my name had been deleted somehow and had to sign back up.

Anyways,  , I've wondered in the past why Ray seems so "defensive" and "offensive." I've come to realize he's not at all. You've seen some of the mail that guy gets! People trash talk him like there's no tomorrow. People also try to tell him the way they see it and put him down for not believing it. His address is there for questions and comments sure, but not belittling him. I've seen people call him a heretic, tell him he's going to burn forever in hell, call him a liar, call him evil, I've seen all kinds of junk thrown at him.

If I were in his position, and got honest mail, I'd give an honest response. On the flip side, getting cursed at and put down wouldn't gain you much of a pleasant response. Realize he never gets jaded enough to not answer truthfully. He challenges lot's of people to quote two scriptures that prove him wrong. I challenge you to show me two of his email responses that contained an answer that's not true. 

Anyways, as I've grown I've come to realize exactly where he's coming from in his email responses. But I digress. Feel what you're led to.

Matt

[little rock]

awesome stuff you guys i to remember the first time i found this sight i laughed ,i cryed ,the burden of lies about hell lifted off my shoulders and finally the peace,   seeing  God clearly made my heart leap and i finally found his rest,knowing "it is God who wills and acts in you according to his good pleasure".praise God if I ever need a good laugh i just read the way God deals with these blind fools through Rays emails.I just love his honesty and sarcasim.(proverbs 16:1)"the preparations of the heart belong to man,But the answer of the tongue is from the Lord"amen .God Bless Ray and all his helpers.Little Rock.

[Craig]

Let me suggest that if you have a problem with the way Ray addresses those who email him, take it up with him personally and let him speak for himself... rather then bringing it up here where I guarantee no one can answer for Ray or why he does what he does better than himself.

His email address is located on the bottom portion of the main page, www.bible-truths.com.

God's Peace
Josh

Thanks Josh, you saved me the time answering, and you did a better job.

As for this thread we will stop the speculation, of how you would answer.  Though I'm not locking this, Nole this could have turned into a perfect example of why a thread is locked.  The moderators have a bunch of experience on how a subject turns bad, and we nip it in the bud.  I don't think you can ask a question that has not been addressed at least one time through the years.  We have a good memory of what happens in the past and a subject sometimes gets locked.

Pay attention to Josh's post and if you don't like how we moderate (lock, etc) I'm sorry, but we are not here to satisfy everyone, I learned a few years ago that is impossible, or as Joe says like "herding a room full of cats.   If you don't like the way Ray teaches, or answers emails then take it up with him.

Craig

[chuckt]

I was reading someof the e-mails to Ray and wondered how this whole thing started? When and how did Bible-Truths.com start up? How did Ray's site start up? Who originated it? I read a good bit before joining and don't see many names that were there back when I started reading. In one of the e-mails Ray made some comment about "taking Ray Smith down" in reference to what the person wrote. Those who personally know him, is he happy to speak badly of people or is it a defensive thing for himself? Just wondering. E-mails got me thinking about it.
Nole

about 2000 yrs ago