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Question on Sermon on the Mount
mari_et_pere:
Continuing:
Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
[Insert the whole Sermon on the Mount here, then finish with:]
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
I'm not really seeing where it says the crowd couldn't hear Jesus talk. It says he went up into the mountain and the disciples went to him, then he taught them, and the crowds were amazed with his doctrine because he taught with authority, unlike the Scribes. I don't know where the teaching that the crowds didn't witness all of this came from. Is it possible that it's not correct?
Matt
Kat:
Hi Gena,
Mat 5:1 But, seeing the multitudes, He went up into a mountain,—and, when He had taken a seat, His disciples came unto Him;
So He is with His disciples to start with, then in Mat 7:28, He was with the multitude.
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus ended these words, with astonishment were the multitudes being struck at His teaching;
Now we also have Luke's version of this same sermon with the disciples and the multitude. And here I think it may show Jesus wasn't speaking to them at the same time?
It starts out with Jesus calling all His disciples together and choosing out the 12, in Luke 6.
Luke 6:13 And, when it became day, He called His disciples, and chose from them, twelve, whom also he named, Apostles,—
I think verse 13 is when Jesus was up on the mountain with all the disciples, then in verse 17, it says He came down and spoke to the multitude.
Luke 6:17 and, coming down with them, He stood upon a level place, also a great multitude of His disciples,—and a great throng of the people, from all Judaea and Jerusalem and the sea-coast of Tyre and Zidon, who had come to hearken unto Him and to be healed from their diseases;
But when we go down in Luke 6 to verse 20, He is speaking to the disciples, so this is not in chronological order.
Luke 6:20 And, He, lifting up his eyes towards His disciples, was saying:—Happy, ye destitute, for, yours, is the kingdom of God.
So if you go down to verse 39, this now seems to be when He starts to speak to the multitude? As it says, He told 'them' a parable. He always spoke to the multitudes in parables. When He began to speak to the disciples in verse 20 He referred to them as His disciples. Now it is referring to 'them.'
Luke 6:39 He spake, moreover, a parable also, unto them: Can, the blind, guide, the blind? will not, both, fall into, a ditch?
Ok, in Matt. there is no division between what He said up on the mountain and then when He came down and spoke more to the great multitude there. It seems like it was the same day and was maybe was two sermons. The first just for His disciples and later He came down to the multitudes. Matt. seems to have just put it all together.
But when you put the 2 versions from Matt and Luke together you get a better idea.
Well that is just what makes sense to me, I hope you could follow that :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
gmik:
Good stuff everyone!!
Logistically, how did multitudes/people/throngs/crowds actually "hear" Jesus teaching? As Ray said, how did the lame climb up the mtn? Children etc lots of movement I would suppose.
I like the idea of Jesus talking just to the disciples, just telling THEM the sermon. It falls in line w/ elect/chosen. But if the sermon was heard by ALL then I think it changes what Ray was trying to say.
Perhaps, he also spoke again when he came down, or maybe it was just "word of mouth".
I will try to cut/paste that part.
gmik:
abundantly clear that Jesus was not addressing the Pharisees, or Saducees, or the Priests, or Scribes, or even the multitudes which did not follow Jesus up the mountain, but waited for His return. Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain. These only He instructed regarding a much higher standard of conduct and judgment:
"...and when He was set, His DISCIPLES came unto Him" (Matt. 5:1)
"And He opened His mouth, and taught THEM [His disciples]" (Ver. 2).
"Blessed are YE [all you disciples]..." (Ver. 11).
"...for great is YOUR [disciples'] reward..." (Ver. 12).
"YE [disciples] are the salt of the earth..." (Ver. 13).
"YE [disciples] are the light of the world..." (Ver. 14).
_____________________________________________________
So Ray def. says He was just talking to His disciples.
Ray does say the multitudes met Him down the hill.
My question. Is the Sermon for the elect/chosen or for everyone who "follows" Jesus. This is also the section that says "many will say Lord, Lord...."
mari_et_pere:
--- Quote ---My question. Is the Sermon for the elect/chosen or for everyone who "follows" Jesus. This is also the section that says "many will say Lord, Lord...."
--- End quote ---
While 'everyone who "follows" Jesus' might get something from it, I'm sure "the elect/chosen" get MORE. They get the spritual aspect that's hidden behind doctrine and misunderstanding. Of course who is who and who gets what is totally up to Him.
IMHO.
Matt
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