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Author Topic: Alcohol  (Read 7665 times)

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Sorin

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Alcohol
« on: April 16, 2006, 09:07:18 PM »

Is it a sin to drink it?
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Karen

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2006, 09:20:01 PM »

Any thing that can become a habit of the flesh is a sin. And we are to overcome the lusts of our flesh.  Isnt it part of the flesh to want to drink? Thats what I see. Hows others see it? ~Karen~
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shibboleth

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Alcohol
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2006, 09:41:21 PM »

Having been a drunk over 29 years ago, I don't really have much affection for alcohol. I never could understand how people could drink a sip of a beer and put it down and maybe drink another sip ten minutes later. I never drank for any other purpose than to get drunk. So my thinking about alcohol may be a somewhat biased against drinking.

I just think it is something that may cause a brother to stumble, and with so many alcoholics in our country, it probalby is a good idea to stay away from it. I don't really care if people drink, but I think it's kind of hypocritical to harshly judge drug takers, when the biggest baddest drug of all is still alcohol.

In the Bible there are many scriptures against drunkeness and I include any drug that changes your brain and thinking ability in drunkeness.
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SteveB

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2006, 09:45:23 PM »

Quote
Is it a sin to drink it?


Joh 2:3 And, at their being in want of wine, the mother of Jesus is saying to Him, "They have no wine."
Joh 2:5 His mother is saying to the servants, "Anything which He should be saying to you, do."
Joh 2:6 Now there were six stone water pots lying there, in accord with the cleansing of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece."

FROM ROBERTSONS WORD PICTURES-
"Two or three firkins apiece (ana metrētas duo ē treis). The word metrētēs, from metreō, to measure, simply means “measurer,â€? an amphora for measuring liquids (in Demosthenes, Aristotle, Polybius), the Hebrew bath (2Ch_4:5), here only in N.T., about 8-1/2 English gallons. Each hudria thus held about 20 gallons. This common distributive use of ana occurs here only in this Gospel, but is in Rev_4:8. In Joh_4:28 a much smaller hudria was used for carrying water."


Joh 2:7 And Jesus is saying to them, "Brim fill the water pots with water.And up to the brim they fill them."
Joh 2:8 And He is saying to them, "Draw now and bring to the chief of the dining room.Now they bring it."
Joh 2:9 Now as the chief of the dining room tastes the water become wine, and was not aware whence it is - yet the servants who have drawn the water were aware - the chief of the dining room is summoning the bridegroom"
Joh 2:10 and is saying to him, "Every man is placing the ideal wine first, and whenever they should be made drunk, then the inferior. Yet you have kept the ideal wine hitherto."

Of course Christ was never drunk and was not encouraging them to get drunk. These are symbols but this was a literal miracle at a literal marriage. Remember this was the 'second round' of wine. The new best wine saved for last:) This a the FIRST miracle of Jesus and a great parable.

I myself do drink. I love beer and wine. BUT I NEVER BECOME DRUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know my limits and its OVERCOMING my flesh everytime I drink and dont fall for the temptation to become drunk. And Paul also told Timothy to drink wine for his oft infermaties.

Those who cant control themselves with respect to alcohol should not drink and I dont drink around those who would be weak by me doing so.

Peace...Steve
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Sorin

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2006, 09:51:56 PM »

Quote from: SteveB
I myself to drink. I love beer and wine. BUT I NEVER BECOME DRUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know my limits and its OVERCOMING my flesh everytime I drink and dont fall for the temptation to become drunk. And Paul also told Timothy to drink wine for his oft infermaties.


Hi Steve,

I drink too, I also smoke but that's for another topic discussion elsewhere.
thanks for your intelligent post on this matter. and I do agree with you.
Sure, I can believe that Christ was never drunk, but I don't believe he never drank.

Take care,
Sorin
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rvhill

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006, 04:35:01 AM »

G5331
φαρμακεία
pharmakeia
far-mak-i'-ah
From G5332; medication (“pharmacy�), that is, (by extension) magic (literal or figurative): - sorcery, witchcraft.

It also has a negative aspect, meaning to use Drugs improperly. Drug addiction would also be Pharmakeia.

Revelation 18:23 and light of lamp shall shine no more at all in thee, and voice of bridegroom and bride shall be heard no more at all in thee; for thy merchants were the great ones of the earth; for by thy  sorcery  have all the nations been deceived.

Gal 5:19  Now1161 the3588 works2041 of the3588 flesh4561 are2076 manifest,5318 which3748 are2076 these; adultery,3430 fornication,4202 uncleanness,167 lasciviousness,766
Gal 5:20  Idolatry,1495  witchcraft,5331 hatred,2189 variance,2054 emulations,2205 wrath,2372 strife,2052 seditions,1370 heresies,139
Gal 5:21  Envyings,5355 murders,5408 drunkenness,3178 revellings,2970 and2532 such5125 like:3664 of the which3739 I tell you before,4302, 5213 as2531 I have also2532 told you in time past,4277 that3754 they which do4238 such things5108 shall not3756 inherit2816 the kingdom932 of God.2316
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ertsky

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2006, 06:09:31 AM »

Rom 14:14  I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15  But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

no wonder it says

Rom 14:22  Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

it seems obvious that there is nothing wrong with a drink but because so many are weak it's best to keep it to yourself so others don't judge you for your liberty.

Col 2:20  Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21  (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22  Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23  Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

in my experience total abstinence can be just as much a work of the flesh as overindulgence.

all these things perish with the using

i find these days it's best to keep it to yourself, to have faith between you and God alone because so many will judge your liberty

these next verses are fantastic

1Co 10:28  But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
1Co 10:29  Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
1Co 10:30  For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
1Co 10:31  Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
1Co 10:32  Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
1Co 10:33  Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

oh and these verses very much along the same line

it's our liberty that is dangerous not our rules and regulations

Gal 5:13  For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14  For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15  But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


f
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Kevin

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006, 11:14:50 AM »

Why do they call certain alcahols spirits?
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Steve Crook

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 11:19:59 AM »

(Mat 26:28)  For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

(Mat 26:29)  But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Obviously, there is always spiritual meaning to every word. However, this physical act was done with the "fruit of the vine". There is nothing that says it wasn't wine, as well as nothing that says it was wine. I'm going to do some more study on the words.

God Bless
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Laren

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2006, 11:21:58 AM »

And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18 )

For me, this a deeper truth than just being physically drunk with wine, although I agree that being drunk is a sin.  

For me it is about old versus new; law versus grace, death versus life, night versus day, dark versus light etc.  

We can not serve two masters or mix the two.
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SteveB

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2006, 03:43:57 PM »

Quote
Marijuana is an herb and I myself use to use it and it has not been that long ago since I quit smoking it!! The Lord let me know that it just was not a good witness for Him, not to mention I was loosing my memory and how stupid it would make me at times, and how damaging it was to my lungs!!!
Cigarettes are my thing right now and let me tell you that is the hardest thing right now for me to give up!!! My wife and son are on me all the time to quit but if you have ever smoked that is one of the hardest things to do!! PRAY FOR ME!!!!


Marijuana is the MOST sinister drug ever! I know I was stoned from morning til night for YEARS. Running from the  guilt of my sin. Its very 'pleasurable'...for a time. But it was a curse when i look back on that time.

I have very bad back problems and sometimes I need medication. The pain killers are very bad as to addictions as well. I have to fight everytime I HAVE to take them.

Cigarettes are HARD TO GIVE UP. I never smoked tabacco, in fact i hated it.  I was listening to a guy on the radio today and he said 'you know cigs are addicting when the first time you smoke you hate it but still keep smoking'. At least with marijuana you get 'pleasure'  of it. Cigs are just a waste to me.  

I'll pray you get victory of over this Bobby.

Peace...Steve
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Laren

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2006, 04:16:42 PM »

Quote from: Laren
And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18 )

For me, this a deeper truth than just being physically drunk with wine, although I agree that being drunk is a sin.  

For me it is about old versus new; law versus grace, death versus life, night versus day, dark versus light etc.  

We can not serve two masters or mix the two.




Isaiah 28:3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:

1Thes 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

1Thes 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
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longhorn

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Alcohol
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2006, 04:40:11 PM »

The lengths we will go to find "APPROVAL" for our addictions is truely amazing.

Love in Christ
Longhorn  8)
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hillsbororiver

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Alcohol
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2006, 04:58:00 PM »

I believe this is one verse which gives us a key to understanding this issue, a fondness for good food can lead to gluttony as can a healthy respect for money turn into greed, if we are not temperate in all things then even things that are not evil in and of themselves can be transformed into sin by intemperence.

1Co 9:25  And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Psa 104:15  And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil, to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Pro 3:10  So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

Pro 9:5  Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.

Ecc 9:7  Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

Apparently Jesus did not only condone wine but supplied it!
 And not only turning the water into wine but He made it "Top Shelf" wine. An old bartender's trick is to serve the first few drinks with the "good stuff"
but once the customer becomes, let's say less discerning, he will switch to a call brand but still charge full price. Here it is written that the bridegroom got points for saving the best wine for last. So apparently this practice of substitution was around for quite some time.


 Joh 2:3  And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

 Joh 2:9  When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine and knew not whence it was:(but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
 Joh 2:10  And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

I doubt Paul would advise wine if it were a sin.

 1Ti 5:23  Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.


But again, we must be temperate,

Isa 5:11  Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!
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Kevin

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Alcohol
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2006, 05:04:20 PM »

I to used drugs on a regular basis. I smoked more pot than gehenna had smoke coming from it. But just like the fire in gehenna  stopped, I stopped. I would stay stoned from morning till night. I also drank alot. Went to jail 3 times because of it. The 4th time got sent away for 6.5 months for my nasty habits. The first night out, drunk and stoned out of my mind. God delivered me from these addictions. Right now the way I see it theres nothing wrong with having 1or 2, if you can stop there.

Has anything good ever  come from it?
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Karen

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2006, 08:50:13 PM »

I said how I feel about alcohol. I once drank alcohol and there where times I got drunk. But the Lord has released me from those infirmitys, those weak things of the flesh. which is a daily dieing to the flesh and letting Him increase in me daily. I have heard a little wine is good for the stomach.For me I dont want any beer or any other alcohol drink. The Lord will deal in each one of use in different ways. But to be apart of the chosen called and to be apart of the first resurrection. I believe that His saints will have to give up smoking, alcohol and any habit that isnt good for His Temple. Thats what I believe Jesus wants for His church. ~Karen~
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Kevin

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Alcohol
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2006, 09:02:22 PM »

I am not defending smoking and alcahol by any means. But to be honest and talking about habits, what about the food that we eat. Would that be something that we would have to give up to be part of the first resurrection? If I ate at McDonalds everyday and had a beer once a month or lets say just one a day would that disqualify one from not being in the first resurrection? These are just questions.  What if someone wanted one beer and one hot fudge sundae, what would be the worse. Initially if you were to have just one the hot fudge sundae would be more of a health factor against you than lets say one beer. So my question is where do we draw the line.
Kevin


[/quote]
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Laren

  • Guest
Alcohol
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2006, 09:39:08 PM »

Quote from: Kevin
I am not defending smoking and alcahol by any means. But to be honest and talking about habits, what about the food that we eat. Would that be something that we would have to give up to be part of the first resurrection? If I ate at McDonalds everyday and had a beer once a month or lets say just one a day would that disqualify one from not being in the first resurrection? These are just questions.  What if someone wanted one beer and one hot fudge sundae, what would be the worse. Initially if you were to have just one the hot fudge sundae would be more of a health factor against you than lets say one beer. So my question is where do we draw the line.
Kevin


[/quote]

Christ in us, our hope of glory.  Spiritual circumcision.  

As I tried to point out before, for me it's about spiritual.  Not serving two masters.  Not serving self, pride, law, but Him/life, spirit, grace.
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Zacman

  • Guest
Very Interesting
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2006, 09:39:12 PM »

Hey all,

What an interesting topic that brings out the honesty in so many.

I myself could make many confessions from the years I spent endulging in carnal things.

However, with that said, all is ordained of God.
If you think you are drinking too much, then God is convicting you.
This He may be doing in ways you don't even realize now.
While drinking and becoming closer to God is a topic which would require a very mature group, of which I don't claim to be.
After all, isn't that the goal?

Best regards,
Zacman
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Phazel

  • Guest
Re: Alcohol
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2006, 09:50:24 PM »

Quote from: Sorin
Is it a sin to drink it?



Not inherantly.   I think the reason we do anything is the issue.
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