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[Sorin]

Joe,

Thanks for your post, I will just simply say that I can not agree with you more. that's exactly how I see it as well. it's not the drinking of the alcohol in and of it's self that's sinful, but rather the abuse of it. just like over eating, food's not sinful, but over eating it, is.

Those are my two cents I guess,

Sorin

[ertsky]

Hi All

i just wanted to say a big AMEN to Joes post

temperate in all things

then we won't hear the thing we should never hear

i.. i ... i  luuuuuuv youse jeeeeeshush hic!

[orion77]

Smoking, drinking and drugs...very opinionated subjects, no doubt.  I will admit, I smoke cigarettes and drink beer time to time, sometimes too much beer.  That's my problem...if God has a problem with it, He'll fix it, in His own due time.  I think noone can cast the first stone at any kind of sin, no matter the least to the greatest.  We have not earned that right.

Where I live its is all about sin and hellfire preached.  I know many, many people who go to church their whole life and try with all their might to live righteous lives.  But, wow the selfrighteous and judgmental minds they have absolutely amaze me.  I believe the sin itself is bad, but the casting of stones from other sinners is TEN times worse.  

Jesus showed this many times during His ministry.  I'll be honest here and say I have sat around and drank a few beers with friends and a conversation about God is brought up...those have been the most deepest and honest talks I have ever had with fellow humans than at any other time.  It's no wonder Jesus spent so much time with publicans and sinners!

I just got through working all day and right now I am drinking an ice cold beer.  Sure hope I don't get kicked out for saying the truth,  :lol: .  I am not perfect and I will not be like the hypocrites who act like they are.  

I am telling the truth, but don't take me serious, please.  We can have a little bit of fun, can't we?

God bless,

Gary

[hillsbororiver]

Gary, I have had the same type of experience, sitting with friends or family having a few beers or wine and the subject of Jesus comes up, normally these same people would not be receptive or put up a defensive posture, but in this relaxed environment I have experienced some of the
best and most fulfilling conversations about Him and His real purpose for humanity, with others this would never work. It is all about discernment and temperence. Let's not look too hard for burdons and heavy yokes.


Mat 11:18  For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
Mat 11:19  The Son of man came eating and drinking and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Luk 5:30  But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?

Luk 12:29  And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

P.S. Thanks for the very kind comments.

[longhorn]

Is pre-marital sex "In Moderation" o.k.  I would think a "MATURE" christian would not have to ask another ADULT christian if SMOKING, and DRINKING are exceptable behavior.  It is nothing more than an subtle attempt to justify a weakness of the flesh.

Love in Christ
Longhorn

[orion77]

Cheers, bobby.  

Joe, being in a relaxed atmosphere and a nonjudgmental atmosphere allows people to speak openly from the heart.  The other type of atmosphere (you know what I speak of) dare not speak up or be threatened of being excommunicated.

Seems like an oversize lightbulb should go off about now,  :lol:  :idea:

Thanks for the posts,

God bless,

Gary

[Sorin]

Is pre-marital sex "In Moderation" o.k.  I would think a "MATURE" christian would not have to ask another ADULT christian if SMOKING, and DRINKING are exceptable behavior.  It is nothing more than an subtle attempt to justify a weakness of the flesh.

Love in Christ
Longhorn

A weakness of the flesh ay? So Paul just deliberately said  1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities, because he was just trying to justify his weakness of the flesh?
Was Jesus justifying his weakness of the flesh too? Jesus drank wine, yeah, that's right, he did.

[Sorin]

Besides, where does Paul or anybody else tell us to have " pre-marital sex", but Paul did say to not drink only water, but also a little wine.

[orion77]

Longhorn, a spiritually mature christian knows without any question or doubt that his flesh is weak, so there is no need to try to justify our weaknesses, for we know and accept that we are weak and can do nothing in ourselves.  So, there is no longer any condemnation in ourselves and especially towards others.

God bless,

Gary

[ertsky]

yeah exactly

who in this thread is trying to "justify" anything?

it's our liberty that is dangerous not our bondage

and who brought pre-marital sex into all this ? the topic is "Alcohol" and the OP is "is drinking a sin" not "is pre marital sex a sin" or "is drunkeness a sin"

f

[gmik]

Isn't it what comes out of a man that defiles and not what goes in?  Anyway, this is very interesting.  Moderation to me is the key.  As Jesus increases in us, and we decrease I would think the love for the things of the world lessen.  Of course, a glass of wine or beer is nothing -lets not go back into legalism-. I love to read Chrissie, and Joe's posts as they use scripture so well.

[Becky]

Romans 14 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

   

Romans 14
The Weak and the Strong
 1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
 5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

 9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
   " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
   'every knee will bow before me;
      every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

 13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

 19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

 22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

Footnotes:

Romans 14:11 Isaiah 45:23
Romans 14:14 Or that nothing

[Becky]

I thought this whole chapter was perfect.  I was having these questions when out for a social event with family who believed all drinking was sin. I had to decide what I would drink in their company since I felt a beer was ok. I ended up drinking a beer anyway, but now i think becuase they thought it was wrong i should have had a coke.
Becky

[orion77]

Becky, thank you for posting.  Those are the perfect verses for this thread.  God bless your heart.

Sincerely,

Gary

[gmik]

amen

[jennie]

Hey ya'll! How do you like my new , just made up word?!? Legalism, oh what a bad word! I would rather hear someone say a little four letter curse word or as we put it down here... a "cuss word" than legalism. Moderation is the key , I think, to everything. Is ist better for a preacher to stand in a pulpit weighing in at 300+ pounds than for someone to have a couple glasses of wine? I don't think so. Go back and read Bobby's post about the reason some areas of the world cannot drink th water. My Daddy, God rest his soul, made his own wine. I myself, have a stomach disorder and my doctor has recommended 2 glasses of wine at 7:oo p.m. each night. You should see the looks I get from people I have run into from a previous church we attended! F-U-N-N-Y! Now I don't know where the pre-marital sex came into in this conversation but I don't get it. Is it not so that sexual union creates one flesh? I think that is a whole 'nother subject. If I am wrong, please correct me. I promise I won't get upset! Jennie

[SteveB]

Becky nailed it!

If you cant contain if you drink alcohol then dont drink!

But dont judge your brother, if he or she does.

That makes you a judge and not a doer of the LAW OF LIBERTY.

Peace...Steve

[rvhill]

Is pre-marital sex "In Moderation" o.k.  I would think a "MATURE" christian would not have to ask another ADULT christian if SMOKING, and DRINKING are exceptable behavior.  It is nothing more than an subtle attempt to justify a weakness of the flesh.

Love in Christ
Longhorn

Technically there is no such thing as pre-marital sex. Once you have sex with some one you are married to them. If you have sex with anyone else you are an adulterer. That is if you want to go by the Law and be technically accurate. It is not the legal document that make a marriage, but the act of sex itself.

[Andrew]

Phi 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Phi 4:9  Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.