Arcturus, please know that I do not wish to offend you, but I would like to add a little to your thoughtful post.
I quote you: "Ray teaches : SOMETIMES MAN’S GREATER SIN IS TRYING TO BE HOLY"
Which is perfectly true, but by whose will are they given to try?
Darren, that question for me, aims the error/fault/blame/excuse...AT GOD! Gods WILL is NOT for us to be evil. Gods PLAN is that we experience evil and through such that we be humbled and trained into His image.I believe that man is but clay beneath the potters hand and contrary to man's given belief, were and are powerless to change until God moves one to do so.
Do you see that comment can be interpreted to again lead to passing ACCOUNTABILITY ONTO GOD for our evil actions, deeds and thoughts! That is Blasphemy! WE are ACCOUNTABLE. Rom 14 : 12 EVERYONE of us shall give an ACCOUNT of himself to God. God will not give account for us to Himself. We are not Gods master. Only Babylon teaches, believes and follows such nonsense.
It would be expedient, that is if this is your view, that you change/repent and move away from such false teachings. If your planned answer to God is going to be the same one you posted here, your account to God is that you are powerless to change and that it was up to God to change you. God might just answer you back about your awareness of I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me![/color]
What I am pointing out Darren, is that we are NOT ROBOTS! We are thinking feeling intelligent human beings. Shrugging off accountability is a dangerous attitude. If that is what you are doing then I exhort and warn you to change. If this is not the case with you....
then great! ![Smiley :)](https://bible-truths.com/forums/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
I agree also with your next paragraph, the teaching that does come out of Babylon IS counter productive and yes: "The denial that the consequences of our lives are in Gods discretion not our own teaches man that he is God." But again are the same only repeating what they were given to hear, see by God himself?
NO WAYS !!!….Read Romans 1 again!
25…because THEY EXHANGED THE TRUTH OF GOD for a lie ( THEY DID THIS NOT GOD)…and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed for ever. Amen! 32. Though THEY ARE FULLY AWARE OF GOD’S RIGHTEOUS DECREE that those who do such things deserve to die, they do not only do them themselves bu APPROVE AND APLAUD OTHERS WHO PRACTICE THEM.Does God really need to look at anyones heart, to see hidden motives? I had always believed this also, but then is one free to walk this earth and collect motives unbeknown to God? Well I will answer my own question, not according to my understanding.
Motives are God given
Are you SURE about that? MOTIVES are from GOD? What about the motive to blow up the twin towers…is THAT from God? What about the motive to defraud and swindle ones neighbour. Is that FROM GOD? I think that thinking is blasphemy! Is blasphemy from God? Motives are from the heart. The heart is from God. The heart is wicked and the motives that arise out of it are from the willfulness and foolishness of man acting out his own ways thoughts and plans. God gives some the opportunity to act out their folly and evilness and some find that their desire to do evil is prevented. You want to commit suicide but just can not do it. You want to kill the murderer who raped your daughter but just can not do it for real. We could all have been Adolf Hitler given the opportunity. and are not for him to learn or discover, BUT for us.
God decides who to chastise and give repentance to yes. God decides who to call and choose, not us. I believe every opportunity given is an opportunity to 'test' the motives that we feel are 'our own'.
Yes. This follows upon taking the beam out of ones own eye and as Paul taught.judging oneself.What is it that God has given one the opportunity to learn, for I feel our eyes and ears are opened.
Phl 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God
I know what Ray is saying when he says: "Maybe it is about time some of you started to feel a little anger toward ....." Yet, I am not sure that anyone can feel anything until God intends it to be felt.
Ever felt paralysed? No feeling is a feeling too!What I mean is, can I choose to be angry when God has given me to be complacent? Or similarly, feel love when God wants (demands) Anger?
I do not think God demands anything. He is not a circus trainer. He observes us as we move from loving evil to hating it and God gives the circumstances that surround this maturing process to some but not to others. Some do not want to grow up into the image of Christ and others want to hold onto their idols of their hearts at all costs unto death. God hardens the hearts of some and softens others but we respond to His training and we respond in accord to how we are as God is making us. This process to some will be visible and to others invisible. Some think they are just dandy in Gods eyes and others are more realistic about who God the Great I AM really is and how we shape up next to His Supreme Sovereignty. After all, He desires that we know Him. Please understand that I agree with all that you are saying: But don't you think as I whole heartedly believe, that all that is, was and will be, .....is, was and will be of God and God alone.
You are mixing up the issue. Of course God will be all in all and all is of God even evil but BUT God has a purpose and a will and a plan and these are not the same things just like eternal is not the same as immortal and responsible is not the same as accountable.
I am not saying that God is evil, for who could say that of him,
But that is exactly what you are saying when you shift accountability for our evil hearts onto God. God is responsible yes, but, BUT WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE. yet has a single word that has ever been heard, been spoken without his instruction?
Of course there have been words heard, spoken and professed WITHOUT Gods instruction. The OT is full of examples!(molding) I know that I cannot direct my steps (Jer 10:23) or by a single thought change anything (Mat 6:27.)
God is the Author and finisher of FAITH. We are the authors and finishers of our wicked ways. God has no part in motives that act out executions with blunt rusty knives decapitating innocent heads. I am nothing without him and I have nothing, even my faith, love and trust in Him are gifts from Him through his Spirit.
ALL good things are from God. Amen to that!I fully realize that I might be 100% wrong on all that I have stated. If so, please know and understand that I am willing to stand correction.
Yours with Love in Christ,
Darren
Rodger
What you say, for me, shows that interior circumstances that exist within the inner landscape of our souls are also being encouraged by our God. HE gives us our joy. Ecc 3: 13 And also that every man should eat and drink and enjoy the good of all his labour – it is a gift from God.
Job 8 : 21 HE will yet fill your mouth with laughter and your lips with youthful shouting. Josh your question and observation is well made. The scriptures say that the experiences of evil are to humble us. These experiences are not random or uncaused. They are by design of God in consequence to our leanings either towards godly living or riotous evil.
Thank you for your testimony.
Diana
We should not counterfeit our feelings. Or act out how we think we should feel. Rather we should discern if we are luke warm and why. We should heed the words in Cor 3:6 GOD Who also MAKES US COMPETENT DISPENSERS OF A NEW COVENANT, not of the letter, but of the spirit, for the letter is killing, yet the spirit is vivifying, giving life.
If we are not yet competent, our aim should surely be to become so! For we should move from the applause of men to the applause of God. I know this is a process but how can any know that such a process exists if it is not articulated and presented?
I have always leaned towards extending the proverbial “benefit of the doubt” towards theologians and their followers and have moved out of this grey area into accepting, as appalling as it is, that Church leaders and the so called men of the cloth, KNOW BETTER but still mislead and wave aside the Truth.
As Ray discloses of his spirit : “ I marvel that MORE PEOPLE are not totally EMBARASED by the way the world of Christendom…peddles the Word of God… http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html
I urge us to question why that is if any be among the tolerance keepers towards the evil we are expected to resist, expose and deny.
Tolerance of the wolves is cruelty to the sheep! All will be accountable and our deeds will be tested as with fire. I simply warn, exhort and encourage non to be among those who loose their reward. That is my motive!
![Cheesy :D](https://bible-truths.com/forums/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
Peace to you
Arcturus ![Smiley :)](https://bible-truths.com/forums/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)