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The lovey dovey Jesus
Deborah-Leigh:
Christendom teaches its following to do this and they will get that. Believe this and then they should expect to receive that. Behave this way and then you will get your way. Think and say this and you will get such and such.
Ray teaches : SOMETIMES MAN’S GREATER SIN IS TRYING TO BE HOLY
The kind of teaching that comes out of Babylon repeatedly tries to keep, hold or put and position man in the centre of his universe. The denial that the consequences of our lives are in Gods discretion not our own teaches man that he is God. Such teachings falsely assume that man holds the reigns over his destiny. These teachings encourage followers to believe if they do what they are told then they can expect the rewards and this encourages a spirit of entitlement and FALSE EXPECTATIONS while denying Christ and HIS Work in us.
God is not a slot machine that holds out the promise to win on the basis of endurance to stay in such a game of error. God looks upon the heart and motives not the outward appearances, nice words and feel good actions.
Ray teaches : Maybe it is about time some of you started to feel a little anger toward all the spiritual swill and filth that is merchandised and peddled to the world in the name of Christianity! For those few, however, who are teaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, GOD BLESS YOU ONE AND ALL!http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm
For me the fruit of the Spirit is without motive and is rather the consequence of Christ’s work in us. For me this came across clearly from the latest audio Bible Study given by Ray.
Don't you find that there is a leaning towards appearing holy and a fear to sound or behave as Christ did towards those He insulted and offended? Who would say that the Spirit of Christ and the fruit of His Spirit did NOT show when he upbraided the hypocrites and snakes of His generation? Or is it Love to rebuke and offend the comfort zones of error and deception with stark electric sarcasm?
I believe there are two ways to see Love. The right way and the wrong way. The lovey dovey Jesus Christ is not the demeanour in which He clothes those who overcome and who will rule with a rod of iron: as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers, even as I received of my Father...says Christ....Rev2:27
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
YellowStone:
Arcturus, please know that I do not wish to offend you, but I would like to add a little to your thoughtful post. :)
I quote you: "Ray teaches : SOMETIMES MAN’S GREATER SIN IS TRYING TO BE HOLY"
Which is perfectly true, but by whose will are they given to try? I believe that man is but clay beneath the potters hand and contrary to man's given belief, were and are powerless to change until God moves one to do so.
I agree also with your next paragraph, the teaching that does come out of Babylon IS counter productive and yes: "The denial that the consequences of our lives are in Gods discretion not our own teaches man that he is God." But again are the same only repeating what they were given to hear, see by God himself?
Does God really need to look at anyones heart, to see hidden motives? I had always believed this also, but then is one free to walk this earth and collect motives unbeknown to God? Well I will answer my own question, not according to my understanding. Motives are God given and are not for him to learn or discover, BUT for us. I believe every opportunity given is an opportunity to 'test' the motives that we feel are 'our own'. What is it that God has given one the opportunity to learn, for I feel our eyes and ears are opened. :)
Phl 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God
I know what Ray is saying when he says: "Maybe it is about time some of you started to feel a little anger toward ....." Yet, I am not sure that anyone can feel anything until God intends it to be felt. What I mean is, can I choose to be angry when God has given me to be complacent? Or similarly, feel love when God wants (demands) Anger?
Please understand that I agree with all that you are saying: But don't you think as I whole heartedly believe, that all that is, was and will be, .....is, was and will be of God and God alone. I am not saying that God is evil, for who could say that of him, yet has a single word that has ever been heard, been spoken without his instruction? (molding) I know that I cannot direct my steps (Jer 10:23) or by a single thought change anything (Mat 6:27.) I am nothing without him and I have nothing, even my faith, love and trust in Him are gifts from Him through his Spirit.
I fully realize that I might be 100% wrong on all that I have stated. If so, please know and understand that I am willing to stand correction. :)
Yours with Love in Christ,
Darren
aktikt:
Darren,
All of what your saying is true. That is, God is totally sovereign. Nevertheless, Jesus still upbraided and used harsh sarcasm on the hypocrites. My question to you would be, why?
Josh
YellowStone:
Hi Josh,
Hey, like I said: Everything is was and will be for our instruction :)
We must learn why Christ used such demur and in doing so, learn also when. Fortunantly, this too is of God and he will instruct us through his Spirit according to his time.
I am glad that you feel that my post is truthful. I am grateful.
Love to you in Christ,
Darren
skydreamers:
--- Quote ---Don't you find that there is a leaning towards appearing holy and a fear to sound or behave as Christ did towards those He insulted and offended? Who would say that the Spirit of Christ and the fruit of His Spirit did NOT show when he upbraided the hypocrites and snakes of His generation? Or is it Love to rebuke and offend the comfort zones of error and deception with stark electric sarcasm?
--- End quote ---
Hi Arcturus,
I think I understand what you are saying. In my experience in the church, there were certainly some who you could tell, "wanted" to appear holy, and then some who "thought" they were holier than others...It was these very people who had no problem "upbraiding" the rest of us, except they were doing so with their limited understanding...so the Spirit of Christ, in my opinion certainly wasn't on them.
I remember when I was first baptized (which now seems a lifetime ago). I was very happy and peaceful and was being greeted by church members, most of whom were very kind. At the time, Christianity was all new to me...I was not yet bombarded with the "do's and don't". Well, the church denomination I attended, frowned upon jewellry, makeup etc...and I at the time had several piercings and rings...etc etc....one woman in the lineup made a derogatory comment about this, not even to my face, but loud enough so I could hear it....I was embarrassed and instantly felt out of place. I had not meant to offend, but I just didn't know, and I was just being me. But I never once took off my jewellry, makeup etc. for anybody or any church...I didn't think it had anything to do with my love for Jesus. (Not to mention that I am of the non-conformist type anyways). But it was this type of attitude within the church that continually made me somehow question myself within, that perhaps I did somehow need to "clean" myself up for Jesus...
But all those people, congregation and pastors alike, were not speaking from a knowledge of the truth, and thus had no authority to be teaching, let alone "upbraiding" anyone. Now, here I am, away from all of that, still feeling like the same unclean sinner that I always was, but now KNOWING that it is not I that needs to clean myself up, but Jesus who will perform that through me...so I continue to strive but from a different understanding and motivation. That's how Ray's teaching has affected me so differently, because when it's the truth, it rings of "authority", as it was with Jesus...
And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
Matthew 7:28-29
So Jesus was able in complete truth and with complete authority to say whatever he needed to, whether with soft words or with sarcasm....he's in a completely different league than any of us! I respect Ray and can see he speaks with passion. And I know he has said we should try to "be like" Jesus. But personally, I am no where near the spiritual maturity that Ray has, so I just wouldn't dare to speak with the same kind of "authority" that Jesus had. So when Ray says, "Maybe it is about time some of you started to feel a little anger toward .....", I can't muster it because I fear I have yet too much carnality that would get in the way.
Like Darren says:
--- Quote ---Yet, I am not sure that anyone can feel anything until God intends it to be felt. What I mean is, can I choose to be angry when God has given me to be complacent? Or similarly, feel love when God wants (demands) Anger?
--- End quote ---
That's pretty much where I'm at.
And that's okay.
Because that's where God wants me. ;)
Peace,
Diana
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