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Author Topic: Wondering???  (Read 2769 times)

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seminole

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Wondering???
« on: July 12, 2007, 01:09:25 PM »

I have tried to e-mail Ray but was unsuccessful. I had some questions that you can probably help me with. What is the peace if you don't have the assurance of being firmly in God's hand? From some of the things I read it seems like Ray is saying that even though all will be saved eventually that there is also the elect and/or chosen. Death don't seem to good if we are just laying in the ground. Something else I read while trying to gain some understanding was that many of the views presented on Ray's sit and the forum are very similar to Calvinism. i don't ask this to cause a problem but only to understand. Thanks.
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musicman

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2007, 01:33:22 PM »

I have tried to email Ray but was unsuccessful. I had some questions that you can probably help me with. What is the peace if you don't have the assurance of being firmly in God's hand? From some of the things I read it seems like Ray is saying that even though all will be saved eventually that there is also the elect and/or chosen. Death don't seem to good if we are just laying in the ground. Something else I read while trying to gain some understanding was that many of the views presented on Ray's sit and the forum are very similar to Calvinism. i don't ask this to cause a problem but only to understand. Thanks.

The peace comes from the assurance that if we have the desire, we will be in God's hands.  The elect are those chosen out of the called of God.  Being dead for a time isn't a problem when you consider that there is no consciousness.  Death is likened to sleep.  That is scriptural.  Oh, and about Calvinism.  Calvinism is an evil theological belief that God preordains some (the elect) to eternal salvation and others to eternal hell.  It's a belief that one has free will but still can't actually control whether they go to hell or not.  This is bogus, as we don't have free will, neither is there such thing as a christian hell.  All will be saved eventually.  Have you read Ray's articles? 
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Craig

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2007, 01:35:29 PM »

What is the peace if you don't have the assurance of being firmly in God's hand? From some of the things I read it seems like Ray is saying that even though all will be saved eventually that there is also the elect and/or chosen. Death don't seem to good if we are just laying in the ground. Something else I read while trying to gain some understanding was that many of the views presented on Ray's sit and the forum are very similar to Calvinism.

On the first question, what is wrong with the body laying in the ground?  When you awaken, whether it is thousands of years or 2 days.  It will seem like it is instantaneous to you.  There will be no sense of passing time, "the dead know nothing"   As for peace and assurance, I am assured that everyone, EVERYONE  is firmly in God's hand.  How much more peace do you need than that?

As for the second, I have studied Calvinism and I see hardly anything similar.  Almost every religious offshoot has some truths to it and Calvin had very little.

Perhaps you would like to tell us the similarities?

Craig
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seminole

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2007, 01:39:58 PM »

Yes I have read them but still find that I have questions. You said if we have the desire we will be in God's hands. That still sounds like a choice to me. Not criticizing what you said at all. And with death  we will be with the Lord when our breath leaves our bodies here I believe Paul said something about that.

I don't understand much about Calvinism but was asking about it because of something I had read. To be honest with you it seemed to go in circles(the article I read) so it left me scratching my head and wondering. That's all.
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musicman

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2007, 01:46:14 PM »

Yes I have read them but still find that I have questions. You said if we have the desire we will be in God's hands. That still sounds like a choice to me. Not criticizing what you said at all.

We do make choices.  Computers make choices.  Our choices have many causes.  Who gives us the desires we have?  And no, we're not like robots.
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Craig

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2007, 01:49:55 PM »

And with death  we will be with the Lord when our breath leaves our bodies here I believe Paul said something about that.


Here are 3 emails from many that Ray answers this and he answers many times in his articles.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3138.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1736.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1265.0.html

Craig
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carol70

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2007, 01:52:25 PM »

The peace comes from knowing that even the world's worst sinners (Hitler, Bin Laden, Ted Bundy, and Satan himself, for example) will eventually be saved and no one will be subjected to an eternal fiery damnation.  Worst case scenario - God resurrects us after death, holds us accountable for our sins, brings his judgment upon us, and "tosses" us into the Lake of Fire, where we will emerge purified and cleansed of our sins and transformed into His image.  I used to be fearful of my family's salvation, particularly my dad, who's an atheist, but now I am comforted knowing that he too will be saved one day.

1Timothy 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Timothy 2:4  who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Love and peace,
Carol
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 01:54:17 PM by carol70 »
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seminole

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2007, 01:55:19 PM »

In this pitiful human state I am in I can't say it brings me peace at all about Hitler, Hussein, Bundy, etc.
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carol70

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2007, 01:57:44 PM »

Hmmm.  Ok, then, pick someone a little closer to you. :)
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ciy

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2007, 01:59:21 PM »

What Craig said should give you peace, Seminole.  He did not say if you desire, he said the following:

As for peace and assurance, I am assured that everyone, EVERYONE  is firmly in God's hand.  How much more peace do you need than that?

If we can truly grasp this, it will give tremendous peace.

CIY

PS - When you say Hitler, Hussein, Stalin, etc that also includes me the worst sinner of all.  Esteem others above yourself.
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seminole

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2007, 02:05:27 PM »

Man, that's so hard for me. I can't stand those guys. I know that I am the lowest of the low and though I know how little I am and that we are supposed to forgive if we are to be forgiven I don't know how to do this.
Nole
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Craig

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2007, 02:17:38 PM »

That's right you don't know, none of us does.  It is only Christ and the Father in us to will and to do of his good pleasure.  When Christ starts actually working in us and living in us, it becomes clearer and clearer.  And easier and easier with little to no effort on our part, because it is the strength of Christ and the Father working through us.

Unfortunately going to church on Sunday and listening to a preacher tell us to will ourselves to be better does not work.  It just makes us look nice and clean on the outside, but still filthy on the inside.

Nole, you admit a key shortcoming/element in your walk toward the truth.  Pray for God to help you here, you can't try and do it on your own.

Blessings
Craig

« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 02:19:15 PM by Craig »
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seminole

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2007, 02:29:05 PM »

Thanks man. I pray for God's help everyday. Maybe I will always fall short in this. I know I can't will myself to do this. I don't have a preacher telling me I can. If any man told me I could will it I'd probably make them mad . I have found I can't "try" for anything. About all I can do by trying is to screw something up. i got a lot of shortcomings.
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Craig

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2007, 02:40:48 PM »

Nole,

Unless I misunderstand you are relatively new to christianity?

I know that God has worked some real change in your life, and like most you were led to these changes through a church.  Man, pray and seek and study and pray some more.  I think deep down you can recognize some of the truth that is taught here or you would have left long ago.  We here are not perfect and have our flaws, but there is more truth in one of the articles of Ray than I got in 39 years of constant church attendance.  I preached a little and taught allot and was a deacon etc. , and I am grateful for that time, as it now helps me to see the truth as well as to know where you and others are coming from.

Blessings
Craig
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seminole

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2007, 03:03:52 PM »

Thanks Craig. That was very encouraging to me. I have been a Christian for a while but it's just been in the not so recent past that I finally got to the place of digging into the Bible and thinking for myself. I know people can give insight because there are many who have studied things out a lot more than I have. I want to continue on the path I have taken and come to understand more and more. It's important to me that I follow my heart and just trust that the Holy Spirit won't lead me wrong!
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gmik

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2007, 02:08:46 PM »

Nole you are way too hard on yourself.  Relax.  You are in the Fathers hand.

I just read where you were watching that TV show and was prompted to go help that poor couple.  Not hardly anybody does stuff like that.

You heard, listened, and obeyed the voice of the Lord!!!

Don't worry about all the head-knowledge stuff!! Or whether you can forgive someone or not!!!! Don't base your personal relationship w/ the Father on something like that.

Helping widows and orphans is love undefiled and true religion.

Have peace brother!
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seminole

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2007, 09:40:59 PM »

Gena, I appreciate that so much. I can be my own worst enemy! Maybe the day will come when I don't kick myself so much.
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rick

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Re: Wondering???
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2007, 10:08:34 PM »

peace for me comes from knowing that this world is exactly where God intended for it to be on july 15, 2007 before He ever created it. i used to be heavily involved in politics and it would upset me when certain candidates did not win. but now i know they would have no power at all unless it be given to them by God. peace at last!! knowing God controls ALL things..............rick
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