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Need some help with this please scholars!
EZE:
Hey guys...
Could anybody possibly help with this one?
I'm in the middle of an online debate with a friend re UR.
He threw a scripture at me that spoke of being 'destroyed' in the fires of Gehenna.
I in turn pointed out to him the the word translated as 'Destroy' is in fact 'Apollumi' and is elsewhere translated as 'Lost'.
He said the following -
START QUOTE
But contextually it would seem not to make any sense to say they are lost.
Do not fear those that can kill the body, but fear him who can lose your soul and body in Gehenna?
And if Hades is cast into the Gehenna and that is called the second death It would appear that your justification of this is trying to force your view into a box that does not fit it.
Whether you take Gehenna and Hades to be literal at this point, would not seem to matter, as their is a destruction that is called or likened unto death at this point...
END QUOTE
The thing is - I can SEE HIS POINT.
Any help would be appreciated people
God bless - EZE
ertsky:
Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
lost there is apollumi
so the Son of man is come to save that which is destroyed ?
also i like this one
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
lost is apollumi again
go rather to the destroyed sheep of israel ? hmmmm that can't be right can it ?
confusion in the understanding
my spirit however is more in this mode
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
so if we do not come to God by Him we are only fooling ourselves ?
f
EZE:
Hey there Ertsky.
Thanks for going to the trouble of replying but it doesn't exactly help me.
I've already quoted a mountain of scriptures with the Gk Apollumi as lost in there to him.
I also pointed out that the Gk word Katargeo is used in reference to God destroying death but never used in relation to humankind.
His beef is that if those who are *lost* are in the 'fires of Gehenna' or 'lake of fire', then why is death and Hades also in there?
Will they also come out purified?
That is his argument and I can see his point to a certain extent.
Does that make sense?
EZE
Steve Crook:
Don't be tossed to and fro with every doctrine or idea of men.
(Mat 10:24) The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
(Mat 10:25) It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
(Mat 10:26) Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
(Mat 10:27) What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
(Mat 10:28 ) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
(Mat 10:29) Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
(Mat 10:30) But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Hell in Matt 10:28 is gehenna as you've pointed out.
--- Quote ---But contextually it would seem not to make any sense to say they are lost.
Do not fear those that can kill the body, but fear him who can lose your soul and body in Gehenna?
And if Hades is cast into the Gehenna and that is called the second death It would appear that your justification of this is trying to force your view into a box that does not fit it.
Whether you take Gehenna and Hades to be literal at this point, would not seem to matter, as their is a destruction that is called or likened unto death at this point...
--- End quote ---
Contextually he doesn't agree with the inspired Word of God. If I fear a MAN who can kill only my BODY, HOW MUCH MORE should I fear our Father who can kill my body BUT ALSO will kill my SOUL TOO?
Dead people are dead. So, once dead, that is the end deal. No more repentance, faith, love, mercy, etc.
The person you are debating with clearly twists words and scriptures beyond compare.
--- Quote ---And if Hades is cast into the Gehenna and that is called the second death
--- End quote ---
Since when is "Gehenna" the "Lake of Fire"?
(Mat 10:28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell(1067)
(Rev 20:14) And death and hell were cast into the lake(3041) of fire(4442). This is the second death.
The "Lake of Fire" IS the second death, NOT GEHENNA or GEHENNA FIRE.
So, I will stop there. Spiritual death is MUCH more important that physical death.
Sorin:
--- Quote from: EZE --- And if Hades is cast into the Gehenna and that is called the second death
--- End quote ---
Hi EZE,
Hades is not cast into Gehenna, Gehenna's flames have been out for many,many years. Hades is cast into The Lake of Fire, when Jesus spoke about the literal Gehenna, He was using that literal place to describe the Spiritual Lake of Fire. for His words are Spirit. Jesus did not speak to the masses in parables to make the meaning clearer, as foolish theologians would have you believe.
Just my two cents,
Sorin
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