Do You Forgive? Do you?

[Ward]

I thought I would ask you all to comment on your individual experience of forgiving others.  Most of the talk by the world is focused on receiving forgiveness.  Specifically from God.  Little is mentioned about forgiving each other.

I regularly think about this when I pray.  I do generally incorporate at least a portion of what the church refers to as the Lord's Prayer.  I follow that example, or at least portions of it almost every time. 

When I get to the portion regarding asking for forgiveness for my sins/trespasses what screams out in my heart/mind is "...as I forgive others."  Do I ever truly forgive anybody for anything?  I don't think so.  So I add to that request that I know that I am not forgiving others, but I ask God to please not hold my sin of non-forgiveness against them.  I don't ever want to see anybody leaving their offering at the alter and looking for me to ask for forgiveness.

I've heard the statements from people in the world.  Generally, it goes something like this, "Yes, I forgive <fill in the blank here>, but I won't forget."  Ouch!!  Is that forgiveness real? More importantly, what about the "...won't forget."  I generally receive that as, not that they won't erase the sin from their memory (We aren't able to do that.), but that, "I am really not going to quit holding the sin against them."

What do you think?  What are you experiences?  Have you been given the gift of actually being able to forgive? (I pray that you have and that I will receive it one day myself.)

\/\/ard

[seminole]

I had an experience that kind of opened up my eyes to this forgiveness thing. Several years ago I was in love. I was getting married to the one that took my heart away. Without being too graphic, she cheated on me. Although I know I shouldn't have been having an intimate relationship before marriage we were anyway. So the cheating was even worse. I was mad, furious at her and the other person and came to harsh words with both and blows to the other guy. I was wrong in that. We got married anyway and I said I forgave but wouldn't forget. We were both miserable because I kept bringing it up. I don't know why or how but one day I realized the knife like pain wasn't there anymore and it was no longer an issue between us. I can sit here and still tell every detail of what happened but the difference is there is no anger and no pain. Don't know if this helps or not.

[carol70]

It has been my experience that if I pray for someone I'm angry at or need to forgive, the forgiveness generally follows - not immediately, but eventually.  It's weird, but it seems a lot easier to me to pray for someone than it is to forgive them.  Besides that, I'm terrified of not being forgiven by the Lord because I didn't forgive someone else.

[rick]

IF FORGIVING IS HARD TO DO NOW..............WILL IT BE HARDER IN THE NEXT LIFE OR EASIER??

[YellowStone]

Great discussion

Forgiving doesn't mean that we should forget. Does God forget? Well if should forget and our sins are forgiven by God, why then are we to be judged?

If I bring someone into my house and they steal from me and I forgive them, should I let them in again and leave them from my sight? What have I learned?

Forgiveness, is about accepting that a mistake was made and realizing that it is God's plan in order to teach us humility and patience. While ever one chooses to harbor resentment and anger, the lesson is yet fully learned. However, I know for sure that I can't forgive some of the heinous crimes commited on women and children. I think feeling they are less than nothing in my eyes, is not forgiveness, even though I do not hate them.

I believe we will have to wait until the next age to experience real forgives and forgive the same.

Great Post

Love in Christ,
Darren

[skydreamers]

Great thread!

Good point Darren.  To take it even further, I think it is near impossible as a human being to forget completely what someone has done to you.  God will one day remember our sins no more, I think when all is accomplished and He is all in all.  But in the meantime we learn from our own mistakes and those of others, and while we are mortal it is likely necessary that we remember some things.

There are definitely small things I have forgotten in my life which people have done.  I know because in some close and deep discussions with loved ones they've asked for forgiveness for something which I've clean forgotten about (again usually small things).

As a small child I was sexually abused by my biological father and even way before I became a Christian I wanted to be the better person and forgive him.  Instead I cut him off from my life, trying to forget about him entirely, acting as if he didn't exist.  Obviously that wasn't forgiveness. 

When I became a Christian I wanted to forgive the Godly way, but I still don't know to this day if I truly have.  I've put it behind me, I think that I don't hold it against him.  I certainly don't see myself as "better" than him, especially after learning all that I have in these last months.  (see Ray's talk on All being guilty of All). 

But here's the thing, we still do not communicate. Neither of us tries to.  He has never attempted an apology.  Now, if he were to show up on my doorstep begging for forgiveness, would I forgive and let him in?  Yes, I think I would.  Certainly.  Would I let him babysit my 3 year old daughter....NOT A CHANCE!!!!  NOT EVER!!!  See what I mean??  I can forgive, but I would think myself foolish to forget what this man was once capable of, and after all these years, what assurance do I have other than words that he's really changed?  I would never put my daughter in jeopardy. 

Now if he were to show up on my doorstep and act like nothing has ever happened and just want to be "dad" again (like he ever was), would I still let him in and silently forgive him??  Well certainly it seems that's what Jesus would do.  "Father forgive them for they know not what they do..."  This he prayed, before anyone even thought to repent....Oh to have the heart and mind of Jesus.  I pray I will someday. 

But the best I can do right now, is pray for my biological sperm donor...that's what I like to call him ...that he comes to a knowledge of Christ.  I know that God will chastise him in His own time and on His own terms.  I don't know if this is true forgiveness, but at least it's a step towards it??  (I hope).

Peace,
Diana

[seminole]

Diana, brave of you to share that. My heart goes out to you. I have dealt with adults who were sexually abused and it can mess you up both physically and emotionally. Sounds to me like you have a good handle on the matter. Your main priority is protecting your children. God's got you in His hands, I know!

[rick]

I think Diana is right. so many times in this life we dont get over things, we just get past them. Even if we say we have forgiven.  I do think when God judges us as we hang our heads in shame and then HE forgives us anyway. Then and only then will we realize true forgiveness and it will flow from us toward others ( even those people that we think we cant forgive in this life) Does any of this make sense????Do you think Eve was able to forgive Cain? I do because she knew first hand the forgivness of God as He slew the guiltless Lamb to clothe her nakedness.

[jER]

Forgiveness for a wrong is from the heart, however, it does not mean - you put on blinders!

Not stepping into a potential minefield, is WISDOM!

My father always said:
Love all, trust few, harm no one - if given the choice; do what is right.


- jER

[Sue Creamer]

I wanted to add a comment even though I know this was posted yesterday.  Some years ago after I had come out of the WWCG and God was starting to open my eyes and heart to his truth, I had an experience that I will never forget.  I had a boss who literally hated me and had also turned a coworker against me which as you can imagine made my life miserable.  It was so bad that when he gave me a review he made comments that were actually considered harassment (which I choose not to take to HR).  I cannot tell you how painful it was for me to go to work each day knowing I had to answer to this man and deal with a very vindictive coworker. 

I prayed and prayed to God for deliverance from this situation but God was silent.  Time passed and slowly God did open my heart and I began to see this man in a different light, he was God's child also and although I didn't know why he hated me I decided to pray FOR him and for God to help him.  I prayed for blessings in this man's life (what was he seeking) and I asked God to bless the coworker who was so miserable...I was somehow able to STOP thinking about "poor little ole" me and my focus turned to helping them. 

One day soon after God did bless this man with the very thing he truly wanted which was an early retirement package, and for the coworker he blessed with a promotion, which took her out of my department, and into a job she loved.  Even more amazing, on the day my boss retired he came to my office and apologized for his behavior.  The girl who left my department has since become a friend and emails every now and then to keep in touch.  So, by praying for them, God also removed my pain.  I have since put that knowledge to the test many times. 

Love is an outgoing thing..whether from thought or deed and God gives us the desire to do good.
Sue Ann

 

[okjohnson]

I do not believe that forgiveness is one sided.

I do not believe it is incumbent upon the one that was wronged to simply say I forgive you.

Just as we need to repent and ask our Father in heaven for forgiveness on a daily basis, I believe the individual who commits the wrong should ask for forgiveness before it is received. Otherwise there is no value in it.

I am sure that if the request for forgiveness is heartfelt, that all God's chosen would be quick to forgive.

I have known people who could not forgive even when an apology has been given.

[Sue Creamer]

Even when it is not asked for, I believe forgiveness should be given.  After all did not our Lord give that forgiveness to the whole world while he was being crucified on the cross, he forgave every human being who ever lived and will live, "Forgive them for they know not what they do"    
 

[carol70]

Luk 17:3  Take heed to yourselves. If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him. And if he repents, forgive him.
Luk 17:4  And if he trespasses against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turns again to you, saying, I repent, you shall forgive him.

Easier said than done, that's for sure!

[okjohnson]

Hi Sue Ann

I think you are referring to the verse "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

Jesus was asking his Father in heaven to forgive them who wronged the Father . This request was for everyone who has broken the law. This request had to be made for our salvation. I think some people believe that Jesus was just asking forgiveness for those who hung him on the cross. We are all responsible for his death through sin.

Is my understanding of this wrong ?

When I said forgiveness is not one sided , I was talking about when someone wrongs you and does not ask your forgiveness. It becomes a personal thing between you and that person.

Of course, I would say to do as Jesus and ask your father in heaven to forgive them who trespass against you, because they know not what they do. And of course, many of your own trespasses are done in ignorance and unknownlingly(i.e. we know not what we do). It is very easy to make a decision that wrongs someone else without your ever knowing it.

[Sue Creamer]

Hi Orlando,

I can sometimes be very hard to understand in my writings, my daughter says I write in "parables".. he he
You are so right about the prayer Christ gave, and I do believe it was not just for those who actually hung him on the cross but for all of creation because we all have sinned. 

Let me see if I can word my thoughts better.  I believe that the elect are to have the same mind as Christ when he cried out his prayer so long ago.  As we are in Christ and he has forgiven all even before they repent, I believe that our mind set should be to forgive our fellow man in the same way (after all we are just as guilty).  In my eyes it is not really a personal thing although we do take it that way.  We all fall short of perfection,  but I still believe we need to "practice" forgiveness even if that person didn't ask for it or even want it. 

Some day when the Kingdom comes and all of the dead (all those who hurt us in this life) are brought to life, they will answer for their sins and I believe they will truly beg for forgiveness and be sooooo embarrassed and ashamed they commit ed grievous sins against other humans.  We are to be living in Christ now and Christ has already forgiven them.   

I have so enjoyed your post.  Please know I am new to this forum and I pray I can learn to speak much better (not in parables) in time.     

Sue Ann

[Deborah-Leigh]

A point to consider : spurious passages of the New Testament, link below

http://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm

"On Authority of Professor C. Tischendorf's notes on the readings of the two oldest Greek manuscripts: The Sinaitic and the Vatican #1209 The following words, found in our Common Version (King James Version) are not found in the Oldest Manuscripts, and are evidently no part of the Divine Word."


Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father forgive them; for they know not what they do

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[M_Oliver]

Have you been given the gift of actually being able to forgive?[/b]

\/\/ard

Almost ZERO percent of the time.  All the while I know I should be doing it.  Part of the painful process...

[ez2u]

  Sue Ann  thank you for sharing that story.  I had a similar situation  I believe praying blessings on people who are hurting us is something the Lord wants us to do all the time.  God help us all to have a Godly attitude toward others.  Jesus help me.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Ray says : Let's assume you have nice neighbors, I have nice neighbors.
When we moved here our neighbors brought us a big bowl of cookies, and we share cups of sugar with our next door neighbor over here, Tammy.  But you could have a neighbor who is a wife beating, drug dealing, God hating, you know, monster for a neighbor.
Now, does God want you or tell you, that you have to love that wife beating, drug dealing monster, with all your heart, with all your mind and soul, does He tell us that?  NO, but I can see some self-righteous preacher giving a sermon saying, well yes you have to do this.  No you don't.

For more details read : http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.0.html

I personally believe that one of the most mind numbing, insidious, bondage producing poison spewed out of Mystery Babylon is the teaching to tolerate evil, bow to demonism and that way we will be like Jesus. When Jesus turned the other cheek it was because HE would NOT bow or fold under the oppression of evil. He died in His stand against wickedness and He " made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col 2:15. There is a lesson to lean from that kind of courage and integrity.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[ez2u]

rereading my reply I would like to correct what I said.  Some times my finger don't write what my head is saying its the mercury in the head.  When I am tired its worst.  The story is: I have a son who is mentally ill he is a genius in the sciences and schizophrenic.  It caused problems with the police who in this city target the homeless and mentally ill.  My city was name one of the meanest cities in the USA for homeless and mentally ill poll.  As a result  he ended up in court facing a 6 month  (at least his lawyer told me Joshua was going to jail for at least 6months or more no matter what ,that day in court)  in jail. I want to say at this time I knew this wasn't right.  So I started to pray and in my prayers I started to Bless the whole court room asking the Holy Spirit to help the judge and the whole gang up there.  Well I am making a long story shorter.  the sentencing kept getting reduce and the woman who show so much hatred toward me in the beginning walk out the court room with josh and myself complimenting Josh.  Now I don't know a lot of things and this isn't a formula to get out of jail.  God 's Will is being done but something happen in that court room after I began to pray blessings on those people.  I do believe God wants us to pray for those who persecute us which could be, God Bless them with your Holy Spirit.  Having a balance to your life and knowing you are in a abusive situation is another story to be told.  I felt the court system was set up to throw my mentally ill son in prison like so many other mentally ill people to support their system and house the mentally ill since they shut down the mentally ill hospitals.  He is now on medication back in college and doing much better.  No help from this community, they tried to destroy him.  I was alone in trying to help him and  I know God was with me after that. It was a big moment after some pretty rough waters.