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Common objections
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Feat
To answer your request for scriptures.
Mark 8:33 but turning around, His back to Peter, and SEEING HIS DISCIPLES, HE REBUKED PETER, saying, Get behind me, Satan! For you do not have a mind intent on promoting what God wills, but what pleases men, you are not on God's side, but that of men.
Here is a teaching from Ray available on his transcripts titled Re: Transcript of Ray's talk on Repentance
The disciples who were following Christ, that had a beam in their eye, a 2x4, these are the few. The ones that had the speck in their eye, these are the many. But how can that be? That doesn't make sense. It makes sense if you understand that this parable is part of the first two verses.
Why is He berating them here a little bit? I mean He's not just casually talking, He says “you hypocrites (He‘s calling His own disciples hypocrites), first cast the beam out of your own eye and you shall be able to see clearly to cast the mote out of your brothers eye.” http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html
Here are some more scriptures :
John 21 : 22 Jesus said to him, (Peter) if I want him (John, the disciple whom Jesus loved,)to stay, survive, live until I come, what is that to you: What concern is it of yours? YOU follow Me!
John 16:29 His disciples said, Ah, now You are speaking plainly to us and not in parables, veiled language and figures of speech! 31 Jesus answered them, Do you now believe? Do you believe at last?
Jesus asked the question. Do we think that Jesus did not know that they did not understand and nor could they until He sent to them His Spirit to open their minds and convert them at Pentecost?
I believe the holiest preserve of Babylonian teachings is the lie that Jesus was soft and compromising and we should wear masks of pretense doubleminded hypocrisy and twofaced deception in order to be like Him. Babylon is a master at this deception that disarms criticism against her and teaches it to her audiences to blind them from the Heroic uncompromising Son of God. Babylone does not worship or know Jesus for who He is and teaches a defenseless failure of a Christ who can not and will not succeed in saving EVERYONE!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Harryfeat:
Hey Arcturus,
Thanks for the excellent cites. Jesus certainly didn't pull any punches when he felt they were wrong. While your scripture quotes are spot on to how Jesus treated his apostles, it does not seem to depict sarcasm. Calling them hypocrites is certainly straight forward rebuking and chastisement.
I am in agreement with you that there should be no soft peddling for wrong doing and wrong mindedness. I think tough love is important. My basic concern is the appropriateness of when it is used. What I don't understand is why sarcasm and rudeness is deemed necessary when dealing with those intent on learning. [I agree on the exception to the rule idea and sometimes it is necessary]. In most cases though, where people are intent on learning the truth, it is my opinion that rudeness and sarcasm are completely out of order. [Of course if meant to be a joke and displayed as a joke to lighten things up is a totally different matter. I am talking about sarcasm designed to make the other person look small or otherwise being derogatory.]
Thanks again for these examples and your other posts here. They were a clear reminder to me that not only does tough love have a place but it is important to put into action where necessary.
be blessed
feat
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Feat
You are welcome.
If by some small possibility, (and if I am wrong please forgive me, I apologise) you are calling me "rude inappropriate, tough love" but with some merit or "place" here in the Forum then I would hope for an apology. If not, then who ever you are referring to as rude, inappropriate and tough....I do not know who you are talking about or who you are referring to. I do not know anyone like that here in the Forum.
I also do not have any associations with any people like that either.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on July 29, 2007, 03:50:16 PM ---Hello Feat
You are welcome.
If by some small possibility, (and if I am wrong please forgive me, I apologise) you are calling me "rude inappropriate, tough love" but with some merit or "place" here in the Forum then I would hope for an apology. If not, then who ever you are referring to as rude, inappropriate and tough....I do not know who you are talking about or who you are referring to. I do not know anyone like that here in the Forum.
I also do not have any associations with any people like that either.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
Hey Arcturus,
Your apology is unwarranted but accepted nonetheless. I wasn't, of course, referring to you in any way. Please do not take what I considered a discussion in general as though I was applying it to you. I was trying articulate my perspective on how to "be like Jesus" . It hadn't occurred to my that you would take any of it personally. I do find it interesting that you would have expected an apology though. My idea of tough love does not necessarily include rudeness or sarcasm. I believe the last examples you gave us were of Jesus using what I consider tough love. He didn't pull any punches. He told them exactly what He thought without using sarcasm.
Your opinion of what is rude and inappropriate seems to be different from mine. That's expected, not surprising and what "makes the world go around." Here is what is funny about the whole situation to me. Isn't it rude to call someone rude? I have been known to be very rude and sarcastic at times but I try to be appropriately so. [I don't always meet my goals even though I do try.:D]
I hope that answers your concern. Please PM me to discuss further because I am starting to feel a little guilty about hijacking this thread.
be blessed
feat
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Harryfeat
Apology withdrawn as you make it plain that it was not necessary. THANKS! ;D
As to your other comments about what you think my opinion is of what is rude or inappropriate, suffice to say it would be inappropriate to discuss this here in the Forum! ;D
So back to work on the real reason I am here.
To learn. To grow in the image and likeness of Christ. Now that's scriptural! :D ;D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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