Spiritual healings

[TimothyVI]

Amen Matt.

Tim

[seminole]

I agree with you Matt. It is almost sounding like  the forum is a club and puts church down . Church is put down here because people don't agree with everything in it. Not every church is the same. If we don't agree that all churches are evil will we be removed? I don't know. I don't really understand the post that made reference to "because Ray said so".

[mrsnacks]

Ray said :Many assume that the statements that Jesus made to his eleven apostles on the evening of His arrest, were a blanket statement to all believers to follow, for all time. This is not so.

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This is confusing because Ray had said that the Scriptures say : He Is , Was and Will be. " So then what determines what scriptures apply to today ?

For example Jesus talked to the disciples in the Olivet discourse of things to come. Holding to orthodox preterism - He was talking to them about what was going to happen in their generation. " This generation shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled." And they were. In 70 A.D. Titus did surround Jerusalem and the temple was destroyed and millions died in the massacre. That was the Great Tribulation. He was not talking about something occurring in the future as the futurists think.
But I think Ray said that the preterists are 1/3wrong and the futurists 1/3 wrong as well. For His Word 'IS, Was, and Will Be." Appreciate some light in this. Thanks

[mrsnacks]

Yes we all agree that GOd is able to heal and raise the dead etc. But He doesn't raise the dead today but He heals. Why does He not do what HE did with the apostles today ? Back then Jesus healed all that came to Him. HE raised the dead and performed great works. But so those days are gone ? Many walk the fence on this one. All that came to Jesus was healed. All that come today to Jesus aren't healed. So in the church and even here we are caught in the middle not knowing if the gifts are for today. Are tongues passe ? Are the gift of prophecies gone ? These things will pass when the perfect comes but define "perfect." Is perfect the Scriptures ?

I can say that from what I have seen in Babylon is not tongues from God.And then I will be on the safe side and say - if God wants to give the gift of tongues He can do anything. BUt either they are not for today or they are. What I have heard when prophecies are spoken are not from God I don't think. I say that because when some one claims that God speaks through them in a public  demonstration - it is so general and not specific. And why doesn't God speak in parables today? 

But the healing I really don't know. Unbelievers are healed sometimes  and don't pray. Miracles happen to he unbeliever as well as the believer. God does what He wants. He has determined beforehand so does prayer make a difference ? I pray always but sometimes I wonder if God heals or doesn't heal whether we pray or not.

[Kat]

Hi mrsnacks,

Here is an email concerning the scripture in question.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4095.0.html ------

Dear Robert:
You dogmatically state that Jesus certainly meant: "THIS generation," and not "THAT generation,"
proving that all the things He mentioned or prophesied HAD to happen in His day and generation
or "Was Jesus WRONG?"

Jesus gave prophesies in this chapter that absolutely did not occur in the first century AD regardless of all the unscriptural nonsense the Preterists teach. Did, for example, verse 31of this 24th chapter of Matthew occur in the first century AD:  "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other?"

No, no it didn't occur even as yet (2000 years later). But when it does occur, then "THIS" generation (the ONE which "shall see ALL THESE THINGS") will not pass until all things in this prophecy are completed.

Next consider your "this or that" argument. The word "This" in verse 34 is translated from the following Greek:


G3778

οὗτος, οὗτοι, αὕτη, αὕται

houtos houtoi hautē hautai

hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee

And here is what Dr. Strong says it means:  "...this or THAT..."  ! As in "this or THAT generation."

God be with you,
Ray
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Well it is a personal decision if someone wants to attended a church building.  I do not dislike people that attend church, many of my own family do.  But it is, what it is.  Here are acouple of emails.

http://bible-truths.com/putout.html --------------

I can certainly identity with your situation. I have personally, as have ALL who eventually come to the Truth, gone through numerous "harlots of the Great Whore" before God opened my mind up to His spiritual Truths.  There is a line in a hymn that goes: "Where could I go but TO THE LORD?"

When you find GOD, your search for the right "church" will be over!!!

I do not belong to, nor do I attend, ANY institutionalized church of men. I am, however, a member of The Body of Christ--The Church of THE LIVING GOD. And those of us that I am aware of, have to travel many hundreds of miles to occasionally fellowship together (as I did this past weekend, traveling a total of fourteen hundreds miles to gather with others of like mind for the weekend).

Sometimes our fellowship is only with Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father, but that's okay.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1304.0.html ----------

Neither would I have success at such an impossible task.  People ask me about "where to go to church" almost on a daily basis. They know that their church and all other churches that they know of, do not teach the truth (worse: they teach lies and heresy).  And so they think that maybe I know of a church a few blocks from where their from or a few miles from their home that does teach all of the truths of God.  Sorry, there is not such thing that I am aware of.

If there were churches scattered through BABYLON THE GREAT WHORE, then there would be no need for God to admonish those whom He is choosing, to "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE" (Rev. 18:4).  Are we to just come out of her spiritually, but remain good social friends with them on a weekly basis?

Church is not now and never was, a physical building to congregate in to worship God.  Could all the hundreds of thousands of Israelites congregate inside the tiny little tabernacle in the wilderness?  Could ALL JUDEA congregate in the tiny Temple in Jeruslem every sabbath?  The synagogues became corrupted and the churches today are corrupted. So where do you want to go?  If you want fellowship why not foin a social club and keep the false religion out of your fellowship.

Jesus taught us that we are to worship God in spirit and in truth, not in this mountain or in Jerusalem, or in a building, or another other "place" that is corrupted.  I can't tell people what to do. If "christian fellowship" means more to them than "godly worship," then I guess they just  have to keep looking.

Being a follower of Jesus Christ was never designed to be a "feel good religion" as many christian churches promise if you join their particular tents on living a worldly life for Jesus.  I trully never miss, "CHURCH"!  I "go to church" every time I open my Bible."
God be with you,
Ray

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Everyone,

I will address some of the issues presented here as time allows, I may have to get back to it later though.

As far as healings and does it apply to all believers right now? No. Why you may ask, because the apostle's work in regard to spreading the Word of God, miracles, and traveling to the far corners of the earth are shadows of the elect and the work they will be doing with Christ in the next age, please keep in mind that the scriptures themselves are primarily for the elect.

Joh 14:12  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(Verily twice, it means PAY ATTENTION!)

The greater work is yet to come, the fall harvest is a much bigger harvest than the firstfruits which were the apostles and the elect in the present (all generations) age.

Why does Jesus state that He will be telling some folks who have claimed to do great works in His name that He never knew them? I am not saying that all miracles and healings are not of God but there are some counterfeits to be sure.

Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(Notice the word "many?")

Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2Co 11:13  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

2Co 11:14  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Have to run but I will continue later.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


PS Hi Kat I  see we posted within minutes of each other once again! 

[mrsnacks]

Thanks Kat: I didn't know the "This" in the greek can mean this or that . But we all agree that 70 A.D. occurred and that some of what is spoken in Matt 24 has not happened yet. The thing I have with the futurist is that all that was spoken is future.

I am just wrestling with some things now.The church I have been attending I am not anymore. God has called me out. I was there as you know to be an instrument of God. Participating and expressing truths in spoonfuls. A few have been called out because God has used me. Now the door is closed. IT got back to the pastors that I was talking to a few members who were open about tithing not being biblical. There was Judas who went to the pastors.  That enraged the pastor and his wife. MY wife has stopped tithing and a few others and God has continued to bless even though they have stopped tithing.  And of course the leaders of the building weren't too pleased in losing a few contributers and money out of their pocket. So of course the Judas also went back saying I didn't agree with the doctrines of orthodox Christianity. So do you think I am welcome ? Of course not. They would've have me teach a class now if I paid them. And to attend would be a visit to a hornets nest.

Anyway, I have received the truth and of course what is false in me must leave. God has opened my eyes in revealing to me the
" many" mentioned are ones that have performed mighty works in His name. The many there ( majority) God said " depart from Me." HE doesn't know them ! So just because a believer is doing mighty works ( healing , prophecies, and miracles) doesn't mean God has a relationship with them. They look like sheep from the outside. But inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

[mrsnacks]

Hi Everyone,

I will address some of the issues presented here as time allows, I may have to get back to it later though.

As far as healings and does it apply to all believers right now? No. Why you may ask, because the apostle's work in regard to spreading the Word of God, miracles, and traveling to the far corners of the earth are shadows of the elect and the work they will be doing with Christ in the next age, please keep in mind that the scriptures themselves are primarily for the elect.

Joh 14:12  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(Verily twice, it means PAY ATTENTION!)

The greater work is yet to come, the fall harvest is a much bigger harvest than the firstfruits which were the apostles and the elect in the present (all generations) age.

Why does Jesus state that He will be telling some folks who have claimed to do great works in His name that He never knew them? I am not saying that all miracles and healings are not of God but there are some counterfeits to be sure.

Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(Notice the word "many?")

Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2Co 11:13  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

2Co 11:14  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Have to run but I will continue later.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


PS Hi Kat I  see we posted within minutes of each other once again! 

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Thanks . Helpful post. I know these things you have mentioned but it does help to have the truth confirmed within me. I need to hear things twice or even more than that.

[DuluthGA]

God bless you Snacks and your family.

With love, Janice



Free fallin'.... 

And......

An amen from me, Matt, as His spirits leads...