created naked.

[chuckt]

i found this very interesting:


Ge 2:25
And they were both [u]naked,[/u] the man and his wife, and were not ashamed

root word;
aram TWOT - 1698
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
aw-ram' Verb

Definition
to be subtle, be shrewd, be crafty, beware, take crafty counsel, be prudent
(Qal) to be crafty, be subtle (Hiphil) to be crafty, be or become shrewd



gen 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?


from the same word as naked:

aruwm TWOT - 1698c
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
aw-room' Adjective

Definition
subtle, shrewd, crafty, sly, sensible
crafty shrewd, sensible, prudent





God bless
in Yeshua

chuckt

[gmik]

Boy, is that interesting all right!!

I re read both passages w/ the word "crafty" instead of naked and subtil.

Chuck, do you have any ideas of what it could mean differently than what we all think??

Why translate naked there???  er..you know what I mean!

[DuluthGA]

Hi Chuck, I was contemplating this off and on all day... and only came up with a few musings, something to the effect of, well, this doesn't surprise me.    And thank you for your insight.  Question.  What do we have to deal with on this earth:  Thing one, evil and thing two, our carnality (flesh/...'nakedness'?)

Our flesh/nakedness is inherently subtle/shrewd/crafty in that it causes us [for God's purposes] the three biggies: Desire of flesh and eyes and pride of life.   If we all, may God favor us, stop and look at the physical world around us, let us truly stop for a moment and see the whole physical worldly world around us, dear Lord... what do we find? ... nothing much good or lasting and many limitations to put it mildly, ha!

So now then you got the whole enchilada of ... we are enveloped in this temporal charade... this subtly shrewd and craftiness of the flesh/nakedness VEILING/COVERING/and GETTING IN THE WAY of what is TRULY REAL and lasting [again, for His purposes]... of this very real impermanent unreality [I know, an oxymoron]... my point again, we are enveloped in our global system due to our flesh/nakedness.

I dunno if I'm stretching it; it may be more like I'm warping it... don't mean to... ho! my only thoughts for you for the day.

Peace bro,
Janice

[chuckt]

hi all and good day.

well scripture interprets scripture:

man was created vain and subjected to vanity not willingly, so this lines up perfectly with my word study on naked!!


Ps 89:47
Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain


Shav' TWOT - 2338a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
shawv Noun Masculine

Definition
emptiness, vanity, falsehood
emptiness, nothingness, vanity emptiness of speech, lying worthlessness (of conduct



Ro 8:20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,


Mataiotes 4:523,571
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
mat-ah-yot'-ace Noun Feminine

Definition
what is devoid of truth and appropriateness perverseness, depravity frailty, want of vigour




so there are two more witnesses one from hebrew scriptures and one from greek scriptures.


and so we come to CHRIST   the one who frees us and clothes us, what a wonder plan of salvation that  most donr recognize yet, may there eyes be opened may the light shine thru and may they understand the ministry of reconciliation, tis CHRIST.


God bless all

thanks for the responses to my post.

inlove
chuckt

[chuckt]

Hi Chuck, I was contemplating this off and on all day... and only came up with a few musings, something to the effect of, well, this doesn't surprise me.    And thank you for your insight.  Question.  What do we have to deal with on this earth:  Thing one, evil and thing two, our carnality (flesh/...'nakedness'?)

Our flesh/nakedness is inherently subtle/shrewd/crafty in that it causes us [for God's purposes] the three biggies: Desire of flesh and eyes and pride of life.   If we all, may God favor us, stop and look at the physical world around us, let us truly stop for a moment and see the whole physical worldly world around us, dear Lord... what do we find? ... nothing much good or lasting and many limitations to put it mildly, ha!

So now then you got the whole enchilada of ... we are enveloped in this temporal charade... this subtly shrewd and craftiness of the flesh/nakedness VEILING/COVERING/and GETTING IN THE WAY of what is TRULY REAL and lasting [again, for His purposes]... of this very real impermanent unreality [I know, an oxymoron]... my point again, we are enveloped in our global system due to our flesh/nakedness.

I dunno if I'm stretching it; it may be more like I'm warping it... don't mean to... ho! my only thoughts for you for the day.

Peace bro,
Janice

you got it!

2Cr 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.


Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


grace to ya
euty

[insanezenmistress]

      WOOHOO chuck!!!


      This is a revelation isn't it?  you can say......Adam and Eve where created wise..........created with and unashamed of their testimony and understanding of god.............they in their own craftyness walked with god  and god walked with them............unashamed unafraid of being wrong, no one to judge them as evil...ACCEPTED by the Lord as they where.

BUT THEN...........WHAT IF.............And the serpent said are you really right?  Here, taste......check yourself out and compare.....


     Why have us "sin" why have us be out into bondange, and to become ashamed of the knowledge of god?...........In order that we might be trained in righteousness..........but i am getting ahead of myself...............(panting happy happy joy joy)

      SO then what did God do?  Gave them coverings.....gave them covenant, gave them a means to rightly divide  .............brought about their salvation.


Here, the origen of "one way religions" ( you must where armenni suits)
Here, the origen of trusting in the forms of men and being ashamed of  our nakedness, rather than to seek god in our nakedness.


   Men think this passage..........this unscientific bad evolutional theory passage.... has to do with Adam and Eve froliking in the tulpis with thier dingle dangles hanging in the dirt............NOOOOOOO


   It speaks of pureness in the mind and then awareness and self conscious killing the oneness with god.  OUR sin..............

   Men think when god gave them covering, he was teaching them sacrifice..........and in one way or two he was....but in another way he was giveing them a guide and saying this is the example, ware these clothing....(his covenant)


   Forgive me i thik i am stumbling all over the place....i maybe should have waited before responding LMAO...i rushed in NAKED.....and flashed you all !!!!!!


Justine.

[Redbird]

Justine,

That was great!! Thanks for the morning smile.

Lisa

[skydreamers]

Justine, that was hysterical!      And insightful as well!

Love the way you express yourself.

Peace,
Diana

[YellowStone]

This has been an interesting study.  

However, has anyone noted the following, The first use of the word 'naked' in Gen 2:25 is different than the 2nd time it is used, in Gen 3:7?

Gen 2:25  And they were both naked [06174], the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked [05903]; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

The first word [06174] `arowm is given the following meaning:

    1) naked, bare
     Used: naked 16

While the second [05903] `eyrom is given the following meanings:

    1) naked
    2) nakedness
    Used: naked 9, nakedness 1

I am sure there must be a valid reason why there are two distinct words for one common meaning

It would seem likely that both Adam and Even seen more than their nakedness in Gen 3:7, than they were able to see prior to the event. They began to see their self worth

It is interesting that the first usage of the word 'Naked' is suprisingly similar to the word translated to subtil in the King James. (as noted previously by Chuckt)

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil [06175] than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

[06175] `aruwm (very close to 06174) Yet the meanings are different

    1) subtle, shrewd, crafty, sly, sensible
        a) crafty
        b) shrewd, sensible, prudent

        Used: prudent 8, crafty 2, subtil 1

However, according to Strongs, all three words share a common root to [06191] `aram

[06191] `aram   is given the following meanings.

    1) to be subtle, be shrewd, be crafty, beware, take crafty counsel, be prudent
        a) (Qal) to be crafty, be subtle
        b) (Hiphil) to be crafty, be or become shrewd

        Used: subtilty 1, crafty 1, prudent 1, beware 1, very 1

All very confusing.

It would appear that the nakedness that Adam and Eve were created with is the closest in form to the rendering of crafty,  subtil, sly. Yet when their eyes were opened they could only see their shame of being naked (the result of sinning).

I find this study fascinating, because the way I see it now, man has for the most part totally hid himself from God, with wants, needs and desires. Yet, even more so, traditions, rituals and practices to "have" God come closer, when in fact these shrouds of self righteousness do little more than amuse God. Somehow, I see Adam and Eve's need to cover themselves as a rejection to God.

Goodness knows that I am not suggesting that we all strip off our clothes to please God

But are we not to strip off all the carnal desires, hang-ups, traditions, fears, etc; so we can present ourselves spiritually bare and naked before him so that God himself can clothe us. Is this not why he asks us to trust him?

Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?  

I wonder what would have happened if Adam and Eve had of said: We have sinned against our God and have done wrong; we will face our punishment, but we will not hide / cover ourselves from him.

It would appear that the word "naked" has always meant more than being without clothes.

Well this is how I see it.,

Love in Christ the Lamb,
Darren

[keth30]

Very interesting indeed, but all I can think about is dingle dangles in the dirt.....

It made me lose my focus, I was laughing so hard.

Keth30

[ez2u]

here is the scripture: love covers a multitude of transgression  pro 10:12  as I have understood as we stand naked before the Lord He covers us with His righteousness.
This new thought of Jesus covering Adam and Eve after the fall ( loosely worded )  because what happen is not what I have understood with my natural mind.  I saw there being a difference in the creation of Genius1 and Genius 2  Than you go into the story, in Genius 3, the parable because Jesus is still speaking to us today and the masses.  I asked that question on this forum are we Satan  it was clearly answered with scriptures no but we are in the flesh apart of His nature.  Jesus clothed us because of His love for humanity and I believe He takes off our ways for the same reason, his love for us. peggy

[Brett]

i found this very interesting:


Ge 2:25
And they were both [u]naked,[/u] the man and his wife, and were not ashamed

root word;
aram TWOT - 1698
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
aw-ram' Verb

Definition
to be subtle, be shrewd, be crafty, beware, take crafty counsel, be prudent
(Qal) to be crafty, be subtle (Hiphil) to be crafty, be or become shrewd



gen 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?


from the same word as naked:

aruwm TWOT - 1698c
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
aw-room' Adjective

Definition
subtle, shrewd, crafty, sly, sensible
crafty shrewd, sensible, prudent





God bless
in Yeshua

chuckt

Hi cuckt,

Thanks for the share. I am curious, is "TWOT" have in e-sword? Cuz, I don't have in it. Just Strong's and Brown-Driver-Briggs' did not have same definition as in TWOT.

Brett

[Brett]

I like threads!

I see something interesting...I don't know if you like it, but anyway, just look on bolds relate to verses:

Gen 2:25  And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Rev 3:17-18  For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.
I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.

2Co 5:3  If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.


Gen. 2:25 is figurative of "naked" and "not ashamed". Like when people (even Christendom) are not ashamed their naked. What this this mean 'naked' as figurative? SIN. People who are not ashamed of their sins until God revealing them (removed spiritual blinds). Like Christendom, they say "I accepted Jesus and forgive my sin" are blindness and nothing they have ashamed of there nakedness for because they support of 'free will', 'eternal tortured in Hell', and all of false doctrine they made.

What you think?

Brett

[DuluthGA]

Thank you Keth30 for repeating it SO I COULD LAUGH TO TEARS AT IT AGAIN! 

Thank you Justine, originally, for a variety of reasons...

[chuckt]

here is the scripture: love covers a multitude of transgression  pro 10:12  as I have understood as we stand naked before the Lord He covers us with His righteousness.
This new thought of Jesus covering Adam and Eve after the fall ( loosely worded )  because what happen is not what I have understood with my natural mind.  I saw there being a difference in the creation of Genius1 and Genius 2  Than you go into the story, in Genius 3, the parable because Jesus is still speaking to us today and the masses.  I asked that question on this forum are we Satan  it was clearly answered with scriptures no but we are in the flesh apart of His nature.  Jesus clothed us because of His love for humanity and I believe He takes off our ways for the same reason, his love for us. peggy

WWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


thats it!! yes tis LOVE we can have all knowledge and know all things and have faith to move mountians without LOVE we are nothing!!!


no greater love has any man cept CHRIST so we walk in him and are clothed with him ((abiding)) in him produces this same love which covers!! which in fact is HIM. Christ in us!!
AMEN.


chuckt

[chuckt]

root word;
aram TWOT - 1698
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
aw-ram' Verb

Definition
to be subtle, be shrewd, be crafty, beware, take crafty counsel, be prudent
(Qal) to be crafty, be subtle (Hiphil) to be crafty, be or become shrewd


Word Origin
~wr[ from (06191) (in its original sense)



your right brett, but thats why in my op i put ""root word"" when i do word studies i look at it all.

so while its not the "same" word the root is the same and we have witness from other scriptures of man being subjected to "vanity" and so  it all fits.......well for lil old me any way


God bless brett in Christ
chuckt

[insanezenmistress]

Very interesting indeed, but all I can think about is dingle dangles in the dirt.....

It made me lose my focus, I was laughing so hard.

Keth30

i do appoligise .. it is not my intention to distract.
for me knowing the words for naked and subtle brought to realisation so many things i had been struggleing with in comming to terms with my personal relationship with Jesus. 

[Redbird]

Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?   

I wonder what would have happened if Adam and Eve had of said: We have sinned against our God and have done wrong; we will face our punishment, but we will not hide / cover ourselves from him.

It would appear that the word "naked" has always meant more than being without clothes.

Well this is how I see it.,

Love in Christ the Lamb,
Darren

Dear Darren, 

That's what I'm talkin bout!  We need not shrink in shame from our God, for we are bought with a precious price, indeed.

His Love and Light, Lisa

[chuckt]

yall dont think i was talking about literal cloths do you???

[LittleBear]

Ha Ha  Justine, you are hilarious!

Justine said:
     This is a revelation isn't it?  you can say......Adam and Eve where created wise..........created with and unashamed of their testimony and understanding of god.............they in their own craftyness walked with god  and god walked with them............unashamed unafraid of being wrong, no one to judge them as evil...ACCEPTED by the Lord as they where.

Isn't this the same with us? Before God gets a hold of us, we also walk in our own craftiness in Babylon. Unashamed and unknowing how naked we really are. Until God shows us by taking us out into the wilderness and through many trials He clothes us in His righteousness.

Love,

Ursula