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hillsbororiver:
Everything between the brackets is from Ray's new paper;
 
["For the creature was made subject to vanity [King James Margin: "futility"], not willingly, but by reason of Him [God] Who has subjected [Gk: ‘subjects’—aorist tense—subjecting is still going on] the same in hope" (Rom. 8:20).

God willfully, wantingly, knowingly, purposely, and wisely, created mankind "subject to vanity," subject to failure, but beyond the failure, God also subjects the same in "hope." Once again, contrary to all orthodox doctrine, there is hope for all of God’s carnal-minded, God-hating people on planet Earth. God Himself says so, in the same breath: "because the creature itself [the same creation that God subjects to vanity, futility, failure, and carnal-minded hatred against God] also shall be [ah, did you catch that? ‘shall be’], delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" (Rom. 8:21). Do you believe the Scriptures? Really—what about this one?

And so God, "made the creature subject to vanity"—failure, but later in mankind’s development, the creature "shall be"— [future tense]… shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption." Ah yes, God created them in a condition of "bondage" and "corruption," and therefore not "immortal" as is taught, but rather in "bondage of corruption." But thanks to God, in the resurrection of the dead, ‘…this corruption must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality’ (I Cor. 15:54).]

I have spent a good portion of the past 2 days reading and rereading Ray's new paper and once again I am amazed at the depths of wisdom that the Spirit has provided and shown us through him.

Before I "stumbled" onto these sites I must have read these verses scores if not a hundred times and they never sunk in or made sense but now they are perfectly clear. "Being made subject to vanity, not willingly!" How can the denominations and others read this and still insist we were created perfect and chose to rebel?

Well, I at one time was sure of that deception too.

Joe

orion77:
I stand in awe, between the way I see now and then.  It is truly an unbelievable difference.  

It took the spirit of God to see, I can take no credit in myself, for we all know who ourselves are.  Also the grace and chastening from God, which brought me to a point of nothingness.  This opened a whole new outlook, that is completely different from the physical, selfish mindset.

When I look at our brethren who are still carnal, the differences we have, the persecutions by them, I must forgive them...there is no other option, because God forgave me.  But, I must admit, tis easier said than done.

Most assuredly is a learning and growing experience.  Having the anticipation of learning something new each day is joyful and humbling at the same time.  May we continue to grow through each others experiences.

God bless,

Gary

hillsbororiver:
Bobby, yes Brother it is certainly an incredible experience, especially looking back at what we once took for granted and then with the Spirit opening our eyes, like when Jesus gave sight to the blind what we are being shown, and in turn actually seeing it!

Now with the parables, I remember how I was taught exactly what Ray is saying the denominations teach. I find this to be a very humbling revelation, that someone like me might actually be called to something this wonderful, this glorious. I pray to overcome and perservere.

Ray's comments in the brackets;
{ [A] "All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them" (Matt. 13:34).

"But without a PARABLE spoke He not unto them…" (Mark 4:34).

[C] "This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them" (John 10:6).

Jesus taught in parables only, and no one understood His parables, hence Jesus taught in a way that He knew no one would understand His message. This truth of Scripture is so revolutionary to the minds of most Christians that many will think it blasphemy, and yet the Scriptures abound with statements that fully support it.

I heard Matt Croach (elder son of TBN President, Paul Croach) state on international television that Jesus spoke in parables to make the meaning of His teachings simple and clear and understandable to the simple farmers and uneducated people of Judea. My Wycliffe Bible Dictionary has a similar explanation: "Purpose of parables. The obvious purpose of Jesus’ use of parables was to make spiritual truth clear and compelling." What a crock.

Is anyone interested in what Jesus Himself had to say about His use of Parables? Good. Here it is:

"And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why do you speak unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is not given" (Matt. 13:10-11).

Now then, does anyone see any similarity between "to make spiritual truth clear and compelling," and "…but unto them it is not given?" No? Neither do I. What I see is a diametric opposite. What I see is a flat out contradiction between Christian teachers and the Word of God.}

Anyone else have any comments on this paper?

Joe

bobf:

--- Quote from: hillsbororiver ---How can the denominations and others read this and still insist we were created perfect and chose to rebel?

Joe[/b]
--- End quote ---


Because free will is an idol.  It makes us a sort of god.  You see if God gave us free will then He can not violate it.  That limits God's power and extends our power.  That means when we "are saved" we can glory over our own wisdom that we believed.  Without free will it means God really did it all and the beast rebels at the notion he is powerless.

An orthodox Christian once told me "God does not trample on man's free will" and that's when I knew it is an idol.  God tramples all over man's will in scripture.

shibboleth:
I just finished the paper and Ray has done it again. Although Ray has mentioned all these ideas in his papers already, it is a real help to have them in one paper to refer back to. I have my LOF series all maked up so I can find quotes and scriptures. With these interpretaion hints, I can just refer back to them if I need to know  how to look for a truth in scripture.

I really liked the 2 witnesses. From now on, I will remember that when I have a problem understanding what a scripture is trying to say.

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