Who was Noah and what did he do?

[ez2u]

Hebrew 7: 11 caught my eye  recently and these thoughts have been formulation in my head for quite a few years,  Its been like a little picture here and there over many years that the Holy Spirit has been unfolding to me and i thought maybe I could share it and see what other people might think. Maybe someone else  has seen some of this.

Luk 17:20  And1161 when he was demanded1905 of5259 the3588 Pharisees,5330 when4219 the3588 kingdom932 of God2316 should come,2064 he answered611 them846 and2532 said,2036 The3588 kingdom932 of God2316 cometh2064 not3756 with3326 observation:3907
Luk 17:21  Neither3761 shall they say,2046 Lo2400 here!5602 or,2228 lo2400 there!1563 for,1063 behold,2400 the3588 kingdom932 of God2316 is2076 within1787 you.5216


luke 17:27  They did eat,2068 they drank,4095 they married wives,1060 they were given in marriage,1547 until891 the(3739) day2250 that Noah3575 entered1525 into1519 the3588 ark,2787 and2532 the3588 flood2627 came,2064 and2532 destroyed622 them all.537

Gen6:5  And GOD3068 saw7200 that3588 the wickedness7451 of man120 was great7227 in the earth,776 and that every3605 imagination3336 of the thoughts4284 of his heart3820 was only7535 evil7451 continually.3605, 3117
Gen 6:6  And it repented5162 the LORD3068 that3588 he had made6213 (853) man120 on the earth,776 and it grieved6087 him at413 his heart.3820
Gen 6:7  And the LORD3068 said,559 I will destroy4229 (853) man120 whom834 I have created1254 from4480, 5921 the face6440 of the earth;127 both man,4480, 120 and5704 beast,929 and5704 the creeping thing,7431 and5704 the fowls5775 of the air;8064 for3588 it repenteth5162 me that3588 I have made6213 them.
Gen 6:8  But Noah5146 found4672 grace2580 in the eyes5869 of the LORD.3068
Gen 6:9  These428 are the generations8435 of Noah:5146 Noah5146 was1961 a just6662 man376 and perfect8549 in his generations,1755 and Noah5146 walked1980 with854 God.430

perfect
From H8552; entire (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) integrity, truth: - without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright (-ly), whole.

Heb 11:7  By faith4102 Noah,3575 being warned of God5537 of4012 things not seen as yet,3369, 991 moved with fear,2125 prepared2680 an ark2787 to the saving1519, 4991 of his848 house;3624 by1223 the which3739 he condemned2632 the3588 world,2889 and2532 became1096 heir2818 of the3588 righteousness1343 which is by2596 faith.4102

condemned
G2632
κατακρίνω
katakrinō
kat-ak-ree'-no
From G2596 and G2919; to judge against, that is, sentence: - condemn, damn.

Noah's act of preparing the ark condemn the world and he became heir of the righteousness which is by faith?  Is this what I am reading?   then in Gen 6:9  how the bible is describing Noah, without blemish,complete,full, perfect.  Who was this man?

For his generation:  well I was looking at his generation and it was full of evil so I posted what the Bilble said about it because to live in that time and be righteous Noah must of gone through a lot ,flesh desires flesh. God's anointing was surely on Noah.  For Jesus in the new testamont to say what he said and read to whom He said it to: the pharisees, men of learning that knew the scriptures.  These men were educatied.  Jesus also spoke to his discplines in more detail.  I would like for you to take note  as he is talking to the Pharisees and Jesus says this is not by observation and the kindom of God is with in you  all this right in these scriptures together.LUke 17: 20-21.

Here is where Jesus is talking to His disibles
Mat 24:36  But1161 of4012 that1565 day2250 and2532 hour5610 knoweth1492 no3762 man, no, not3761 the3588 angels32 of heaven,3772 but1508 my3450 Father3962 only.3441
Mat 24:37  But1161 as5618 the3588 days2250 of Noah3575 were, so3779 shall also2532 the3588 coming3952 of the3588 Son5207 of man444 be.2071
Mat 24:38  For1063 as5618 in1722 the3588 days2250 that3588 were before4253 the3588 flood2627 they were2258 eating5176 and2532 drinking,4095 marrying1060 and2532 giving in marriage,1547 until891 the day2250 that3739 Noah3575 entered1525 into1519 the3588 ark,2787
Mat 24:39  And2532 knew1097 not3756 until2193 the3588 flood2627 came,2064 and2532 took them all away;142, 537 so3779 shall also2532 the3588 coming3952 of the3588 Son5207 of man444 be.2071
Mat 24:40  Then5119 shall two1417 be2071 in1722 the3588 field;68 the3588 one1520 shall be taken,3880 and2532 the3588 other1520 left.863
Mat 24:41  Two1417 women shall be grinding229 at1722 the3588 mill;3459 the one3391 shall be taken,3880 and2532 the other3391 left.863
Mat 24:42  Watch1127 therefore:3767 for3754 ye know1492 not3756 what4169 hour5610 your5216 Lord2962 doth come.2064
Mat 24:43  But1161 know1097 this,1565 that3754 if1487 the3588 goodman of the house3617 had known1492 in what4169 watch5438 the3588 thief2812 would come,2064 he would have watched,1127, 302 and2532 would not3756 have suffered1439, 302 his848 house3614 to be broken up.1358
Mat 24:44  Therefore1223, 5124 be1096 ye5210 also2532 ready:2092 for3754 in such3739 an hour5610 as ye think1380 not3756 the3588 Son5207 of man444 cometh.2064
Mat 24:45  Who5101 then686 is2076 a faithful4103 and2532 wise5429 servant,1401 whom3739 his846 lord2962 hath made ruler2525 over1909 his848 household,2322 to give1325 them846 meat5160 in1722 due season?2540
Mat 24:46  Blessed3107 is that1565 servant,1401 whom3739 his846 lord2962 when he cometh2064 shall find2147 so3779 doing.4160
Mat 24:47  Verily281 I say3004 unto you,5213 That3754 he shall make him ruler2525, 846 over1909 all3956 his848 goods.5224
Mat 24:48  But1161 and if1437 that1565 evil2556 servant1401 shall say2036 in1722 his848 heart,2588 My3450 lord2962 delayeth5549 his coming;2064
Mat 24:49  And2532 shall begin756 to smite5180 his fellow servants,4889 and1161 to eat2068 and2532 drink4095 with3326 the3588 drunken;3184
Mat 24:50  The3588 lord2962 of that1565 servant1401 shall come2240 in1722 a day2250 when3739 he looketh4328 not3756 for him, and2532 in1722 an hour5610 that3739 he is not3756 aware1097 of,
Mat 24:51  And2532 shall cut him asunder,1371, 846 and2532 appoint5087 him his846 portion3313 with3326 the3588 hypocrites:5273 there1563 shall be2071 weeping2805 and2532 gnashing1030 of teeth.3599

One of the thoughts I think I am seeing here is in Hebrew 11:7 prepare an ark    by which he  ( this is Noah )  condemn the world.  Now Jesus ties in this act to the end of this age are we going to be the Noah and by our righteious acts condemn the world and bring the coming of the Lord and the end of this age?  There is alot of study here  which also leds to David when he numbered the people and was judged by God ,which I will explain later , when David was on the thresing floor.  I have a full day ahead of me and must go to work.  please if anyone can exbound on any of this or what is needed, please post a reply.  I pray I was clear enough sometimes my mind expands and I don't come across as clear as I should,  pleasel et me know. Studing Noah through out the old and new testmont is very revealing Peggy

[ciy]

Noah is simply a shadow of Christ and his first fruits (disciples, chosen, elect) just as Moses, Abraham, Joseph, David, etc were shadows of the Christ and those chosen of God to keep the faith and to hold his truths against the ways of the world, the multitudes who will not be saved in the present age but will be judged in the age to come. 
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a loving God.  You must stand strong against the wisdom of the world unto the end (in Noah's case the flood) in order to be saved and go into the next age with the few chosen.
It is those that do the Lord's commandments and not just know them like actually building an ark while the wisdom of the world laughs at you and persecutes you for your unworldly doings.
CIY

[rocky]

I love this part about the ark

Gen 6:14  Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.



pitch:

כּפר
kâphar
kaw-far'
A primitive root; to cover (specifically with bitumen); figuratively to expiate or condone, to placate or cancel: - appease, make (an) atonement, cleanse, disannul, forgive, be merciful, pacify, pardon, to pitch, purge (away), put off, (make) reconcile (-liation).

those in the ark, protected from the wrath outside by pitch, "covering, atonement". 

[insanezenmistress]

Now Jesus ties in this act to the end of this age are we going to be the Noah and by our righteious acts condemn the world and bring the coming of the Lord and the end of this age?






o gawsh......i was thinking this earlier.

not nessacarilly the words but.......when it started to become clear to me that god's will is in charge, and that he reveals himself to his own and  a few other groovy things concerning how the "second comming" will be......

(i read many of rays emails and when ray mentioned another teacher he admired i went off to check out THAT GUY........and he spoke of Christ's comming.........)

anyway i was in a very rapturious prayer/meditaiton and felt i was really praying in tune with god , to god and it was like i was in his time not mine and as if by trusting in His spirit within me ......like my prayers and the revelation was all happening...........something like id imagine if Noah's building the ark in the physical where the physical steps God used to bring on the rain............

but then later as the whole woohooness of the praying in the spirit faded i was like..but god.......this is a LARGE world and many dont even want you......never mind the chruch, at least the church craves god alittle but the reconciliation of teh WHOLE world......the Comming with your saints and priest and ruleing the REST of the world........but but but ...

the Spirit assured me that my belief or doubt does not stop the lord purpose.  He is not bound by my doing.  I am sure he was not bound by Noah's doing either.


I'd like to wager that as noah built that ark, each nail and each cut was to him a prayer and a confirmation of the Judgement of the lord happening.

and maybe if i/we keep praying it wont belong before we can ASK NOAH OURSELVES...........lol......

for what it's worth.........its my museing.

Justine

[rocky]

I see the time of building the ark, as the time in the wilderness.  The time of working out your salvation with fear and trembling.  A similtude of the "first fruits".  "Ishmael and Isaac" being side by side, coexisting together. 

I see the flood wrath of God, the casting out of "Ishmael", and the "Isaacs" not being hurt of the flood.  And the reward, heir of the land, "Promised land" (spiritual, new covenant) 

Noah lived by faith, he believed that God would be faithful to his promises.  He endured persecution from the world.  Laughter, ridicule etc.  He remained faithful. 

Just like the Israelites in the wilderness, most did not remain faithful, and never entered the promise land.  Their result was destruction.  But Joshua (representative of Christ and those awaiting his coming, first fruits), entered the promised land.

The Noah also story reminds me of I Corinthians 10

1Co 10:1  For I would have you remember, brethren, how our forefathers were all of them sheltered by the cloud, and all got safely through the Red Sea.

1Co 10:2  All were baptized in the cloud and in the sea to be followers of Moses.

1Co 10:3  All ate the same spiritual food,

1Co 10:4  and all drank the same spiritual drink; for they long drank the water that flowed from the spiritual rock that went with them--and that rock was the Christ.

1Co 10:5  But with most of them God was not well pleased; for they were laid low in the Desert.

1Co 10:6  And in this they became a warning to us, to teach us not to be eager, as they were eager, in pursuit of what is evil.

1Co 10:7  And you must not be worshippers of idols, as some of them were. For it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO DANCE."

1Co 10:8  Nor may we be fornicators, like some of them who committed fornication and on a single day 23,000 of them fell dead.

1Co 10:9  And do not let us test the Lord too far, as some of them tested Him and were destroyed by the serpents.

1Co 10:10  And do not be discontented, as some of them were, and they were destroyed by the Destroyer

1Co 10:11  All this kept happening to them with a figurative meaning; but it was put on record by way of admonition to us upon whom the ends of the Ages have come.

1Co 10:12  So then let him who thinks he is standing securely beware of falling.


Noah remained faithful, his reward was the NEW WORLD. 

The unfaithful were destroyed in the flood (wrath of God)


Gal 4:22  For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave-girl and one by the free woman.

Gal 4:23  But we see that the child of the slave-girl was born in the common course of nature; but the child of the free woman in fulfilment of the promise.

Gal 4:24  All this is allegorical; for the women represent two Covenants. One has its origin on Mount Sinai, and bears children destined for slavery.

Gal 4:25  This is Hagar; for the name Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, which is in bondage together with her children.

Gal 4:26  But the Jerusalem which is above is free, and *she* is *our* mother.

Gal 4:27  For it is written, "REJOICE, THOU BARREN WOMAN THAT BEAREST NOT, BREAK FORTH INTO A JOYFUL CRY, THOU THAT DOST NOT TRAVAIL WITH CHILD. FOR THE DESOLATE WOMAN HAS MANY CHILDREN--MORE INDEED THAN SHE WHO HAS THE HUSBAND."

Gal 4:28  But you, brethren, like Isaac, are children born in fulfilment of a promise.

Gal 4:29  Yet just as, at that time, the child born in the common course of nature persecuted the one whose birth was due to the power of the Spirit, so it is now.

Gal 4:30  But what says the Scripture? "SEND AWAY THE SLAVE-GIRL AND HER SON, FOR NEVER SHALL THE SLAVE-GIRL'S SON SHARE THE INHERITANCE WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."

Gal 4:31  Therefore, brethren, since we are not the children of a slave-girl, but of the free woman--

[ez2u]

WOW  I had been out for a few days my neck was out of place and in a lot of pain. When I read  it pretty much confirm what I had seen to  but Noah condemned the world by his act of building the Ark.  Will the righteous in Christ brin;g the coming of the Lord Jesus a second time?  and will the earth be that evil again?  thanks for your replies  Peggy

[hillsbororiver]

I was thinking again about Noah and how it may very well represent chastisement verses the wrath of God, I think it would be safe to assume that the building of the ark was not an especially easy task, how about the gathering of all the creatures? Do you suppose that God supernaturally did it all Himself or did he require Noah to have faith in the project as he sweat through the works of doing it?

Yes, the Lord had chosen Noah for this and did not assign him a task he could not complete, but I am sure it was not a walk through the park on a Sunday afternoon in the spring.

So do you think that this assignment to build, stock and sail in the ark was a shadow or type of the chastisement that the chosen of God experience and that those left off the ark were a shadow or type of those who were appointed to the wrath of God?

The following is from a couple articles that were written not about Noah specifically but I do believe they have relevance here as this was "The Day of the Lord" in Noah's eyes to be sure;

http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html

THE DAY OF THE LORD AND II THESSALONIANS II

Most of us not unlike the Thessalonians of Paul's day are aware of a prophetic time spoken by the prophets known as "The Day of the Lord." The Thessalonians knew somewhat of this day and what it portended, as Paul spoke to them earlier about it. Now he has to tell them in this second epistle,

"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that THE DAY OF CHRIST is at hand" (II Thes. 2:2).

Never forget that Jesus Christ IS 'The LORD,' and so the Day of Christ and the Day of the Lord both represent the Son of God.

Notice what Paul had instructed them in his first epistle concerning the coming of the Lord:

"...and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the Living and True God; And to wait for His Son from heaven, Whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come" (I Thes. 1:9b-10).

Paul tells them of his suffering:

"For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain: But even after that we had SUFFERED before, and were SHAMEFULLY ENTREATED, as ye know... with MUCH CONTENTION

(I Thes. 2:1-2). Then Paul speaks of their suffering and the reason for sending Timothy to them:

"That no man should be moved by THESE AFFLICTIONS: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto" (I Thes. 3:3).

Paul states that:

"Therefore, brethren, we were comforted over you in all our AFFLICTION and DISTRESS by your faith" (I Thes. 3:7).

And so Paul tells them of his afflictions, and also acknowledges their afflictions. Again Paul assures these Thessalonians that:

"For yourselves know perfectly that THE DAY OF THE LORD so comes as a thief in the night... For God has NOT appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thes. 5:2 & 9).

Well Timothy reported back to Paul that they were having even more tribulations and persecutions to the point that they were thinking that they must be in that period of time of "The Day of the Lord," and that they themselves were suffering wrath from God.

Once more Paul acknowledges these tribulations and suffering:

"So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in ALL YOUR PERSECUTIONS AND TRIBULATIONS THAT YE ENDURE" (II Thes. 1:4).

But rather than wrath from God, Paul assures them that this suffering is really a token of God's righteous judgment and that God will be punishing those who are persecuting them:

"Which [suffering] is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be COUNTED WORTHY of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God recompense tribulation to them that TROUBLE YOU" (II Thes. 1:5-6).

Then Paul gives them one more giant promise of rest from all of these sufferings:

"And to you [and to US as well] who are troubled REST with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction [eonian extermination] from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power; When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) IN THAT DAY" (II Thes. 1:7-10).

And next we come to the Scriptures of our present study. Paul comforts them in their persecutions and tribulations. He assures them that endurance in faith will account the worthy to be in the Kingdom of God, and that they will have rest at the coming of our Lord to be glorified in His saints and admired in ALL THAT BELIEVE. This is the way of the believer leading up to the coming of the Lord and the "Day of the Lord," when all will be changed and glorified. But Paul tells them that that day is not here yet.

Listen carefully: Generation after generation after generation of believers and saints of God have lived, suffered and been persecuted, and then DIED. This "Day of Christ" or "Day of the Lord" not only did not come in their lifetime, but it will not be a reality to any of them WHEN IT DOES COME, unless something else happens in their lives FIRST!

Unless this experience happened to them in their lifetime, whenever they lived, they will not be in the First Resurrection and see the Coming of the Lord in the Day of the Lord. Something had to have happened to them—all of them. Something HAS to happen to YOU—ALL OF YOU who expect to see the Coming of the Lord and the Day of the Lord and be accounted worthy to be in The Kingdom of God. Yes, we already read in II Thes. 1:10, "When He shall come to be glorified in His saints..." And He will be glorified in all His saints at that time, but not unless something has happened in all of His saints FIRST!

Until and unless the thing that I am going to mention next is an accomplished FACT in your PRESENT life, you will not see The Coming of the Lord, neither will you be in the First Resurrection of spiritual rest and glorification. I kid you not, this is deep and heavy stuff!

And this from an unpublished email;


Lord, REBUKE me not in Thy WRATH: neither CHASTEN me in Thy HOT DISPLEASURE" (Psalm 38:1).

The Hebrew words translated "rebuke & chasten" are virtually identical in this verse, and the Hebrew words translated "wrath & hot displeasure" are virtually identical. Rotherham even translates "hot displeasure" as "wrath"—"Nor in thy wrath [hot displeasure] chastise me."

From Strong's we find the following:

"Rebuke" is from jakach and means: "to correct, reprove, chasten."

"Chasten" is from yasar and means: "to correct, reprove, chasten."

But"

"Wrath" is from kehtzeph and it means: "rage, indignation, wrath"

"Hot displeasure" is chemah and means: "rage indignation, wrath"

Now then, "rebuke & chasten" are in the "same family" and "wrath & hot displeasure" are in the "same family," but "wrath" and "chasten" are decidedly NOT in the same family.

Maybe this analogy will help a few of you to understand: When a teacher "corrects, reproves, and chastens" our children, we pay him a nice salary. But when a teacher displays "rage, indignation, and WRATH" toward our children; we FIRE HIM. Am I going too fast for anyone?

Psalm 38 undeniably shows that God was going to rebuke and/or chasten King David, and for this David was okay. What David did not desire, however, is for God to rebuke and chasten him IN HIS HOT DISPLEASURE AND WRATH. If anyone still doesn't see the simple truth of these words, then maybe check it out with a 5th grade grammar teacher. Wrath means "ANGER." In Rev. 6:16 "...the wrath [Gk: orge] of the Lamb" mean "ANGER, indignation, vengeance, wrath" (Strong's Greek Dictionary). But not just the "Now don't be angry with me, sweetheart" variety of anger but, "violent passion or abhorrence" (again from Strong's Dictionary).

There is a giant difference between affliction and tribulation which we "ARE appointed thereunto" (I Thes. 3:2-3, and wrath which we are "delivered from" (I Thes. 1:10) and "are NOT appointed unto" (I Thes. 5:9).


I think that even though the chastisement here in this life can be very intense, it will be ratcheted up quite a bit when the Judgment Day comes, Noah must have felt an intense pressure and a "why is this happening to me/us" emotion but it was a much superior experience in regard to the emotions felt by those who experienced the flood. The elect are purified and made stronger by God's Fire but they will not be consumed by it.

Eze 22:31  Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe   

P.S. Interesting isn't it that the first (physical) baptism is carried out with literal water and the second with spiritual Fire?

Mat 3:11  I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

[Redbird]

This thread has got me thinking of the doublets in the bible, ecspecially of the Noah account:

In Genesis 6, God commands Noah
19-20 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.  Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind; two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

In Genesis 7, the LORD commands Noah
2-3 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.  Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

Why is the "by sevens" account never spoken of?  and does anyone have any thoughts on this? 

Peace, Lisa

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Lisa,

Noah is told to bring 7 pairs each of clean beasts and fowl.

Then God directs Noah to bring 2 pairs each of unclean beasts and fowl.

Gen 7:2  Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

We know the number 7 represents God's completion, perfection. The clean beasts are worthy of the sacrifices that are a type and shadow of Christ's sacrifice.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Redbird]

Dear Joe,

Thank you, I understand.  But why the two different accounts?

Peace to you, Lisa

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Lisa,

I am not seeing two different accounts, 2 pair for the unclean beasts and 7 pair for the clean beasts. Are you asking why God directed more clean than unclean beasts on the ark?

It was interesting that God told Noah that the unclean beasts would be there (come unto thee) for him to put on board as they came to him, but we read that Noah had to take (is that draw?) the clean beasts.
Did Noah have to physically take the clean beasts (sounds like a tough directive!) but the unclean would just be available to him?

Peace,

Joe

[Redbird]

Joe,

This is something I am going to study further. It is very interesting to me too.  Thank you for your input.

Peace to you brother, Lisa

[Gregor]

Greetings,
This is my first post, and I'm not sure how to respond to specific posts, but here goes. I find it interesting that in the original garden of Eden, Adam and the animals were at peace with eachother. Then after the flood, in Gen. 9:2 it is when the fear and dread of man is imposed on every beast, bird, creeping thing, and even the fish. It is also in vs.3 that it is declared every moving thing that lives shall be food for man, even as the green herbs. Prior to this (Gen.3:18,19) God instructed man to only eat the herbs of the field/bread. Prior to this, man and animal were at peace. In Gen.6:20 it states that two of every kind will come to you (Noah). Gen.6:21 again God instructs Noah to take of all food that is eaten, gather it (not kill it) and it shall be food for you (Noah) and them (the animals). Gen.7:9 & 15 again states that the animals went into the ark to Noah - he didn't need to collect them, they weren't afraid of him yet. I'm sure that God led them. When God commanded Noah to such a seemingly impossible task (as he does with us sometimes), it is God who makes it come to fruition. I also believe that the "seven of two's" referred to in Gen.7:2 was for the purpose of the gene pool, as God commanded in Gen.9:1 to be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. It is also very interesting that in Gen.9:5 God will also require a 'reckoning' of both man and the animals for shed blood. One thing I noticed as I began to study the clean vs. unclean animals is that the common thread to unclean animals is in their direct contact with the earth (cloven hoof) and or consuming of blood, rather than those who chew their 'cuds' (vegetable mixture). I looked back at Gen.3:19 and see that man came from the dust (earth). Also, Gen.4:3 recounts the offering from Cain as unacceptable. Why? Gen.3:17 God just finished cursing the ground. Then in Gen.4:10 God says the voice of your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. Blood very well may also have been shed back in 3:21 when God made the tunics of skin for Adam and Eve. The ground has been cursed, and God says in Gen.9:4 not to eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.  We've heard it said many times in scripture that the life is in the blood, yet, in the begining it was said that God breathed the SPIRIT OF LIFE into man. The focus needs to be put back on the spirit, moreso than the blood. Christ said the words that he speaks are spirit, life. For the word of God is what matters, not the lie of the serpent (you shall not surely die) which, when believed, resulted in bloodshed. I hope this sheds some light on some of the questions raised.
All the best,
G.

[Redbird]

Dear Gregor,

Welcome to the forum.  Those are some good observations, that will help in my study.

Thank you,
Lisa

[iris]

Hi Gregor,

Welcome to the forum!
Good post!
Thanks for sharing.


Peace and Love
Iris

[ez2u]

I want to share something here
Psa 104:15  And wine3196 that maketh glad8055 the heart3824 of man,582 and oil4480, 8081 to make his face6440 to shine,6670 and bread3899 which strengtheneth5582 man's582 heart.3

man's
H582
אנושׁ
'ĕnôsh
en-oshe'
From H605; properly a mortal (and thus differeing from the more dignified H120); hence a man in general (singly or collectively). It is often unexpressed in the English Version, especially when used in apposition with another word: - another, X [blood-] thirsty, certain, chap [-man], divers, fellow, X in the flower of their age, husband, (certain, mortal) man, people, person, servant, some (X of them), + stranger, those, + their trade. It is often unexpressed in the Engl. version, especially when used in apposition with another word. Compare H376.

H605
אנשׁ
'ânash
aw-nash'
A primitive root; to be frail, feeble, or (figuratively) melancholy: - desperate (-ly wicked), incurable, sick, woeful.

H120
אדם
'âdâm
aw-dawm'
From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.


Adam  who was ruddy  Esa
Gen 25:23  And the LORD3068 said559 unto her, Two8147 nations1471 are in thy womb,990 and two8147 manner of people3816 shall be separated6504 from thy bowels;4480, 4578 and the one people3816 shall be stronger553 than the other people;4480, 3816 and the elder7227 shall serve5647 the younger.6810
Gen 25:24  And when her days3117 to be delivered3205 were fulfilled,4390 behold,2009 there were twins8380 in her womb.990
Gen 25:25  And the first7223 came out3318 red,132 all over3605 like an hairy8181 garment;155 and they called7121 his name8034 Esau.6215

Gen 25:27  And the boys5288 grew:1431 and Esau6215 was1961 a cunning3045 hunter,6718 a man376 of the field;7704 and Jacob3290 was a plain8535 man,376 dwelling3427 in tents.168
man
H376
אישׁ
'îysh
eesh
Contracted for H582 (or perhaps rather from an unused root meaning to be extant); a man as an individual or a male person; often used as an adjunct to a more definite term (and in such cases frequently not expressed in translation.) : - also, another, any (man), a certain, + champion, consent, each, every (one), fellow, [foot-, husband-] man, (good-, great, mighty) man, he, high (degree), him (that is), husband, man [-kind], + none, one, people, person, + steward, what (man) soever, whoso (-ever), worthy. Compare H802.  I am bring this out because this shows two different men and you see the same thing about woman  Is there two creations of humans?

I also want to say in this Noah post
Heb 11:7  By faith4102 Noah,3575 being warned of God5537 of4012 things not seen as yet,3369, 991 moved with fear,2125 prepared2680 an ark2787 to the saving1519, 4991 of his848 house;3624 by1223 the which3739 he condemned2632 the3588 world,2889 and2532 became1096 heir2818 of the3588 righteousness1343 which is by2596 faith.4102

Noah condemned the world  that is wha tI am bring out not about tribulation ect...
Do any of you see this.  Peggy

[santgem]

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God Gen 6:9


How could Noah be perfect if Paul said that...


As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:10
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3:23

Is it not that only Jesus is perfect in this life and we will be perfected in the next life?

[G. Driggs]

Hi Santgem,

One point of view is from man's relative point of view. The other is from God's point of view which is the absolute point of view.

This email reply from Ray might help explain.

http://www.bible-truths.com/email14.htm

Dear Ben:
 
Dozens of times (maybe hundreds) God speaks to us AS IF He were a man. But God is NOT A MAN.

Some examples:

"And the Lord REPENTED [changed His mind] of the evil which He thought to do unto His people" (Ex. 32:14).

Vs.

"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for He is not a man that he should repent [change His mind]" (I. Sam. 15:29).

Is this a flat out Biblical contradiction? NO. On statement is from man's point of view, and the other is from God's point of view. One is the RELATIVE, while the other is the ABSOLUTE.

"...choose you this day whom ye will serve" (Josh. 24:15).

Vs.

"Ye have NOT chosen me, but I have chosen you..." (John 15:16).

The relative point of view from man's position seems to put the ability to choose on man's shoulders, while the ABSOLUTE truth from God's position is that 'no one CAN come to Me...." (John 6:44).

"...whosoever does not righteousness is NOT of God" (I jn 3:10).

Vs.
   
"ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18).

Unrighteousness is NOT of God's heart. Those who doe wickedness are of their father the devil, Jesus said. Yet, even THAT is OF GOD in the ultimate sense.

One more:

"Zachariah was JUST before God" (Luke 1:5).

Vs.

"NOT ONE is JUST" (Rom. 3:10).

Again, Zachariah was "just" FROM MAN'S point of view. When comparing him with all the other corrupt priests, Zachariah certainly appeared to be JUST. But from God's ABSOLUTE point of view, not even Zachariah was just.

And so there are hundreds of just such statements in Scripture that appear to make God out to be HUMAN, with HUMAN anatomy (eyes, ears, face, hair, arms, etc.) when in reality God IS SPIRIT and has ABSOLUTELY NO HUMAN ANATOMY.

When God asked:  "Where art thou Adam?" Are we to assumed that God Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHERE ADAM WAS HIDING??   And then, "WHO TOLD YOU that you were naked?" Does God REALLY NOT KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THESE SIMPLE QUESTIONS?

It was for ADAMS SAKE that God asked: "Where art thou" and "who told you that you are naked." From man's point of view God "repented" or "changed His mind." But God has not revealed to the whole world that ALL IS OF HIM, and he NEVER EVER CHANGES ANYTHING! Now do you see and understand. Good.

There are thousands of highly educated theologians and teachers that do not grasp these simplest of Bible Truths.

God be with you,

Ray
----------------------------------------

What I've always wondered is can both points of view be true? Certainly God's absolute point of view is true, but is mans relative point of view true too?

[Kat]

Well let's see, I think the absolute and the relative is the right place to look for the answer here.

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God Gen 6:9


How could Noah be perfect if Paul said that...


As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:10
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3:23

Is it not that only Jesus is perfect in this life and we will be perfected in the next life?

To Santgem question, Noah was perfect in his generation. That is relative or from a position (man's point of view) of a physical man, it is true. Compared to his generation, Noah was considered pretty much as 'perfect' as a carnal man could be.

Now from the absolute position, which is God's position, He is the totality of spiritual completeness/perfection. God is in a place of total purity, of 'perfection' beyond anything physical, because God is not limited by the physical in His completeness, He is without any degree of flaw. So nothing in the physical can even come close to comparing to what God is, therefore you have the 'relative' perspective of physical man or from his point of view, which God allows and then you have the 'absolute' perspective of a sovereign God.

Hope that helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[santgem]

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:8

Job did sin. As Ray's explanation(sorry forgot the link)

Job finally saw this SIN in his life and repented of it. Must we be brought down as low as Job was before we see this sin in our own lives:

"If I rejoiced because MY wealth was great, and because MINE HAND HAD GOTTEN much..."

Have we not all said, or believed, that it is by man's own free moral choices that he can either be a bum or make himself prosperous? Have we not all believed this, and acted on this, and taken credit, all through this belief in our own "free will choices?" Of course we have, and IT IS A SIN that needs to be repented of:

"...because MINE HAND HAD GOTTEN much... THIS ALSO were an INIQUITY TO BE PUNISHED by the Judge: for I should [would] have DENIED the God that is above" (Job. 31:25 & 28).

It is "iniquity" to take to one's self, powers and accomplishments that belong to God and to ONLY God. Job repented of this iniquity. What is our excuse for continuing to cling to this idol of the heart?


In the proverbs it says that;


Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.Pro 20:1

Genesis 9:20-25
20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness. 24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said, "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers."


These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. Gen 6:9


How can the Bible say that Noah was a Perfect and blameless person before the Lord during his generation when he goes around getting drunk and lying naked in his drunkenness?

Now the big question is.....
Is drunkenness and lying naked in that scenario is not a sin against God?