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Author Topic: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus  (Read 2793 times)

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Bradigans

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Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« on: September 05, 2007, 12:10:30 PM »

 
I'm in a dilema here. Someone posed me a question, and I don't know what to say. The question is why is the geneology leading up to Jesus from David according to Matthew 1:6-16 different from the geneology leading up to Jesus from David in Luke 3:23-31. To begin with, one starts off with Solomon and the other starts off with Nathan. Solomon and Nathan are two different sons of David. Is this an error in the KJV Bible? I'm not certain if I can put all of this here, but here is some of what this guy said:
ONLY TWO COMMISSIONED
 
Of the four Gospel writers, God "inspired" only two of them to record the genealogy of His "son." To make it easy for you to compare the "fathers and grandfathers" of Jesus Christ in both the "inspired" lists, I have culled the names only, minus the verbiage. See below. Between David and Jesus, God "inspired" Matthew to record only 26 ancestors for His "son." But Luke, also "inspired," gathered up 41 forefathers for Jesus. The only name common to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH and that, too, a "supposed" father according to Luke 3:23 (AV). This one name is glaring. You need no fine-tooth comb to catch him. It is Joseph the carpenter. You will also easily observe that the lists are grossly contradictory. Could both the lists have emanated from the same source, i.e. God?
 
 
GENEALOGY FROM DAVID TO JESUS
 
 
 
FULFILLING PROPHECY?
Matthew and Luke are over-zealous in making DAVID the King, the prime ancestor of Jesus, because of that false notion that Jesus was to sit on the "THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID" (Acts 2:30). The Gospels belie this prophecy, for they tell us that instead of Jesus sitting on his father's (David's) throne, it was Pontious Pilate, a Roman Governor, a pagan who sat on that very throne and condemned its rightful (?) heir (Jesus) to death. "Never mind,'' says the evangelist, "if not in his first coming, then in his second coming he will fulfill this prophecy and three hundred others beside" But with their extravagant enthusiasm to trace the ancestry of Jesus physically to David, (for this is actually what the Bible says — THAT OF THE FRUIT OF HIS (David's) LOINS, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH" (literally, not metaphorically Acts 2:30), both the "inspired" authors trip and fall on the very first step.
Matthew 1:6 says that Jesus was the son of David through SOLOMON, but Luke 3:31 says that he (Jesus) was the son of David through NATHAN. One need not be a gynaecologist to tell that by no stretch of the imagination could the seed of David reach the mother of Jesus both through Solomon and Nathan at the same time! We know that both the authors are confounded liars, because Jesus was conceived miraculously, without any male intervention. Even if we concede a physical ancestry through David, both authors would still be proved liars for the obvious reason.
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javajoe

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2007, 12:45:21 PM »

The way I have had this explained to me was that one geneology was through the family of Mary, and the other geneology was through the family of Joseph.

Hope that helps!
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skydreamers

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2007, 01:57:13 PM »

Joe, I heard that before too so I looked it up on the internet and this is what I found:

Matthew 1 and Luke 3:

    The genealogies of Jesus in the New Testament have various purposes:
 
    1.  Matthew 1:1-17: Lists the ancestors of Joseph, the legal father of Jesus, and presents the Genealogy of Jesus Christ, who descends directly from Abraham, Judah and David, until Joseph, the adoptive father of Jesus (Matthew 1:1-17)... writing for an audience of Jewish Christians, is eager to identify Jesus as a descendant of David, and thus the Messiah, the true heir of David’s kingdom. He also wants to identify Jesus as a descendant of Abraham, and thus one of the covenant people and heir of the promises... he lists the ancestors of Joseph, from the tribe of Judah, the legal father of Jesus .
   
Matthew lists 42 ancestors, Thus there were 14 generations in all from Abraham to David, 14 from David to the exile to Babylon, and 14 from the exile to the Christ (Mat.1:17).
   
There have been many attempts to see in Matthew’s use of three groups of fourteen, a symbolical meaning, some related to Daniel’s seventy weeks’ of years (14x5=70).
   
Most ancestors were holy and important people... but some of us would have been ashamed of ancestors who were criminals, murderers, prostitutes, adulterous... the gospels are very candid and honest in presenting the true ancestors of Jesus Christ.
   
He lists 5 women, something very strange in Jewish genealogies. One of them a pagan, Ruth. Another an adulterous, Bathsheba. Two prostitutes, Tamar and Rahah. And finally, the most blessed among women, the Mother of Jesus, Virgin Mary.
   
Six patriarchs who were promised that Messiah would be their seed: Abraham-Isaac-Jacob-Judah-David-Zerubbabel... but, out of the 6 patriarchs, 3 were definitely not the firstborn of their brothers: Jacob (Gen 25:25-26), Judah (Gen 29:31-35) and David (I Sam 16:11-13).
   
Rehab and Ruth and Tamar were not Jews, thy were gentile. Christ did have Gentile blood. Jesus was not a 100% Jew.

    2. Luke 3:23-38: Lists the ancestors of Virgin Mary, the Mother of Jesus, also from the tribe of Judah. Jesus is the descendent of Abraham, Judah and David on both His father's line and his mother's line. (Luke 3:23-38).. Luke is writing for an audience that is predominantly Gentile, to the Greeks. So he takes Jesus’ genealogy all the way back to the beginning of Genesis: “the son of Adam, the son of God”.
    Luke lists 74 ancestors, up to Adam. 

http://biblia.com/jesusbible/genealogy-jesus.htm

You can find more info by googling genealogy of Jesus in bible.

Peace,
Diana
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 01:59:54 PM by skydreamers »
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Kat

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2007, 03:13:23 PM »


Hi Bradigans,

Here is a email answer to your question.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3811.0.html -----

Dear Josh:
    Apparently, Luke's account IS Mary's genealogy.
    King James reads:  "...the son of Joseph which was the son of Heli" (Luke 3:23).
    Rotherham:  "...the son of Joseph of Heli."
    Concordant:  "...being a son (as to the law) of Joseph, of Eli, of Matthat, of Levi.
     
    Now then, "son of" is clearly not in the Greek, and so it is not necessarily fitting that
    it should be supplied by the translators in this case.
     
    Joseph in Matthew's genealogy of Jesus is not the "son of Heli" but rather Jacob (Matt. 1:16).

    And so this could be a case such as we find in Deut. 25:5-6--"If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her HUSBAND'S BROTHER shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.  And it shall be, that the firstborn which she bears shall succeed IN THE NAME OF HIS BROTHER which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel."

    And so Heli may have been a "son IN LAW" rather than "a son." And this could be Mary's genealogy back to Solomon where they apparently merge again with Joseph's line. It is quite complicated. Theologians have made a life study of the genealogies, and their are several theories extant.

    Don't ask me any more questions on genealogy, as I really do have more important things to write about, but it is an interesting question.

    God be with you,

    Ray
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Bradigans

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2007, 09:21:31 PM »

Just wanted to say, thanks everybody, this really helps. Keep me in your prayers...
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gmik

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2007, 11:47:17 PM »

Thanks Diana, I love info like that!!
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pylady

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2007, 02:05:25 AM »

Don't remember where but I remember reading that since the Messiah was to be both king and high priest one ancestral line (don't remember if it was Mary or Joseph)
established His right to the throne; the other ancestral line His legal right to be high priest.

Does anyone remember reading that in one of Ray's writings?
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2007, 05:26:27 AM »

I don't know if this has to do with what you are asking, but someone a long time ago posted htis on this forum, and i kept it because i thought it was a great answer. Perhaps it will give you insight?

Hi all---------------

As every one here on the BT forum  knows,the bible is inerrant,the perfect Word of God.There are no mistakes to be found within it's pages,so when we come across statements that seem to be inaccurate,that stick out,you can believe that there is a reason and significance that was planned by the book's inspirer---God.The same is true for any mathematics and accounting in the text.With that in mind lets look at something...........

Matt 1:17 "So all the generations from Abraham to David are FOURTEEN generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are FOURTEEN
generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon into CHRIST are FOURTEEN generations."

Now if you take out your bible and read the names you will find that something is amiss.We should end up with 42 generations with Christ being the 42nd name on the list.But He isn't.Christ is infact number 41.There is one generation missing.So who is number 42?Who is THIS generation?Who are Christ's decendents and bare His name?Listen Up CHRISTains I am talking about you.


Isaiah 53;8-10 "He was taken from prison and from judgment: and WHO SHALL DECLARE HIS GENERATION? for He was cut off out of the land of the living: for the
transgression of my people was He stricken. And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; because He had done no violence, neither
was any deceit in His mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him, He hath put Him to grief, when thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, HE SHALL
SEE HIS SEED, HE SHALL PROLONG HIS DAYS, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand."


Psalm22:30-31 ''A seed shall serve Him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for A GENERATION. They shall come, and shall DECLARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS unto a people
that shall be born, that He hath done this."


I Peter 2:9 . . . "BUT YE ARE A CHOSEN GENERATION, a royal
priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light."


Now here is the icing on the cake-----Rev.11:15----"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of OUR LORD AND OF HIS CHRIST; and He shall reign forever and ever."


Now if Jesus is LORD then WHO is His Christ?-------Psalms 2--"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord,
and against His anointed (Christ), saying, Let us break THEIR bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh; the
Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my HOLY HILL
OF ZION. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, THOU ART MY SON: this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the
heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. THOU SHALT BREAK THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON: THOU SHALT
DASH THEM IN PIECES LIKE A POTTER'S VESSEL."

The annointed,the overcomer,the few,the chosen,the body  OF CHRIST----this is the 42nd generation 

Much love--------------knuckle

God bless,

Alex
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Dave UK

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2007, 05:36:05 AM »

Hi
I have another question regarding the geneology of Jesus. If he was a direct ancestor of David would he have had legitimate right to claim the throne of David ? Presumably his ancestory would have been known, and would this fact be partly the reason behind them wanting to make him king in John 6 14-15 ?
thanks
Dave UK
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skydreamers

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2007, 03:43:56 PM »

Alex, I remember reading that before and thinking "that is way cool!" so this time I am going to print it out.  I have to start printing stuff out and filing it for reference.  So much good stuff to keep.

Thanks,
Peace,
Diana
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Bradigans

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2007, 04:55:49 PM »

I don't know if this has to do with what you are asking, but someone a long time ago posted htis on this forum, and i kept it because i thought it was a great answer. Perhaps it will give you insight?

Hi all---------------

As every one here on the BT forum  knows,the bible is inerrant,the perfect Word of God.There are no mistakes to be found within it's pages,so when we come across statements that seem to be inaccurate,that stick out,you can believe that there is a reason and significance that was planned by the book's inspirer---God.The same is true for any mathematics and accounting in the text.With that in mind lets look at something...........

Matt 1:17 "So all the generations from Abraham to David are FOURTEEN generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are FOURTEEN
generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon into CHRIST are FOURTEEN generations."

Now if you take out your bible and read the names you will find that something is amiss.We should end up with 42 generations with Christ being the 42nd name on the list.But He isn't.Christ is infact number 41.There is one generation missing.So who is number 42?Who is THIS generation?Who are Christ's decendents and bare His name?Listen Up CHRISTains I am talking about you.


Isaiah 53;8-10 "He was taken from prison and from judgment: and WHO SHALL DECLARE HIS GENERATION? for He was cut off out of the land of the living: for the
transgression of my people was He stricken. And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; because He had done no violence, neither
was any deceit in His mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him, He hath put Him to grief, when thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, HE SHALL
SEE HIS SEED, HE SHALL PROLONG HIS DAYS, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand."


Psalm22:30-31 ''A seed shall serve Him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for A GENERATION. They shall come, and shall DECLARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS unto a people
that shall be born, that He hath done this."


I Peter 2:9 . . . "BUT YE ARE A CHOSEN GENERATION, a royal
priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light."


Now here is the icing on the cake-----Rev.11:15----"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of OUR LORD AND OF HIS CHRIST; and He shall reign forever and ever."


Now if Jesus is LORD then WHO is His Christ?-------Psalms 2--"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord,
and against His anointed (Christ), saying, Let us break THEIR bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh; the
Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my HOLY HILL
OF ZION. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, THOU ART MY SON: this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the
heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. THOU SHALT BREAK THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON: THOU SHALT
DASH THEM IN PIECES LIKE A POTTER'S VESSEL."

The annointed,the overcomer,the few,the chosen,the body  OF CHRIST----this is the 42nd generation 

Much love--------------knuckle

God bless,

Alex

Sincerely Alex,

This helps, and thanks for sharing.

IN HIS LOVE,

Bradford
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Bradigans

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Re: Question regarding genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2007, 05:01:15 PM »

I hope this is permissible. Just sharing a little bit of dialogue below I was having with someone else over this issue.

bradigans: How's everything going?
bradigans: I had a question in regard to the geneology of Jesus in Matthew 1:1-16 compared to the one in Luke 3:23-31. They're different. Someone told me that one was the line leading up to Jesus through Joseph, and the other one was the line leading up to Jesus through Mary.
bradigans: But, I was wondering, Jesus really didn't have a physical line but was concieved of the Holy
bradigans: Ghost.
lawriedms: Dear sir, I am Ophir, son of Mr. Deva Evu Lawrie. Kindly contact him tomorrow morning. As of your question, it is true that Jesus does not have a physical line and so both the geneologies are wrong. As well, the geneology in Matthew leads to Joseph, which even according to the Scriptures is wrong, since after the King named Jechoniah, according to the curse by God, there can be no heirs to his throne. As far as the geneology according to Luke is concerned, it leads to Mary, which also cannot be taken into account, since women do not have the seed. Also taking into account she was related to Zechariah the high priests wife, she should have been of Levi tribe; so Jesus also cannot be called as Son of David and Son of Man, since He was born of the Holy Ghost.
bradigans: Thanks dearly for your time and answer, and God bless...
lawriedms: Thank you and bye!
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