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Author Topic: struggling out  (Read 2533 times)

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  • Guest
struggling out
« on: September 12, 2007, 01:52:31 PM »

Hi Ya All,

I've joined recently and mentioned a bit about my situation and how I'm still
"in" a churce, a leader as well as leading a fellowship group.

Well, I've lately been a bit more open about my beliefs, which are in line with the
beliefs here, with my fellow fellowship members.
Last night I was asked by a member about sin and I explained how I felt. We looked at
some scriptures, and I should add that they know very few, and then one member was
quite upfront with a few questions directed toward me and my beliefs.
I was a bit surprised, but tried to answer it as best as I could.

Afterward I felt disappointed. Nobody agreed. Yet, as I said, they couldn't really refute
what I shared. They just believe what they believe. Nothing against them. They're my good friends.
Maybe I'm just feeling depressed.

We went home and I told my wife that I want to quit as leader -This might be the initial
step. She said I should go to talk to the pastor. Oh boy! Don't want to do that!
It would just be a total mess. Bad feelings and so on.
But I kind of know that is what I should do. Or is it? Now if I were in a big church with many members
I could just quietly disappear, but our church is small, as is the community. And I don't just walk away.
It's just not the way it should be done.

Aaaaghhhh guys..............

I know that no one can give me the golden recipe of how to come out. I just wanted to share how I felt.

It would be nice to know that at least a few here are reading and through that at least I'll feel
there's a bit of support.

Also would like to say that the way the members here communicate with each other are really
wonderful to see and it's rubbing off onto me. That's just so nice!

Peace to ya all.


  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 02:32:01 PM »

Hi Paul,

It looks like you're in a situation that many here at the forum are in or have been in at some point, so I am sure you will get some wonderful words of advice and encouragement.   

This is not something I can speak to personally, since I wasn't overly involved in the church I went to, so leaving was easy.  But I know how difficult and discouraging it can be to share this message of UR with people you care about just to have it rejected. 

Though coming into these truths can be a struggle, and a painful tearing down of what we thought we knew, still the result is a deeper peace and joy than one could have ever had before.  It's like our peace with God becomes more solid and intimate, but the price is losing the peace with the world around us. 

My prayers are with you.  I pray the Lord give you a clear understanding of what to do next, and the strength to endure it.  It's likely that if you keep sharing your beliefs you will eventually be asked to leave.  The truth is intolerable to those who are still blind.  God be with you!

Peace and love to ya,


  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2007, 02:58:06 PM »

HI PAUL I TOO AM NEW HEAR,YET I SAY WELCOME TO THE BOARD! PAUL THEIR IS A LOT THAT I FEEL I COULD SHARE WITH You FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I would rather do it through pm,because I tend to get a little long winded when writing. I will offer this for now. As long as you are in your current church,you have an obligation to faithfully teach what the Pastor would in his absence. It would be improper for you to work for Pepsi-Cola,and send trade secrets to Coca-Cola.To do such in the church will only gender strife,and confusion,which God is not the author of. If you find that your theology has or is differing from your local assembly, you have an higher obligation as a leader to settle this matter or at least remove yourself from teaching until you resolve this.I would also caution you to move slowly and lest you sense God saying move quickly. In other words be sure when you move you hear and sense the direction of God.For if you move ahead of God or behind him you will feel even more miserable tan you probably do now.


  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2007, 03:00:21 PM »

Hi Paul,

I was a teacher in a small church for 10 yrs.  I mostly taught children, but was in the youth department for a few years.  
I'm just wondering why would you go and discuss this with your pastor who has totally different beliefs than you?  You may need to go and inform him of any decisions you make that would effect the church.  Like your not teaching will open a position they will need to fill.  But how can he possibly give you wise council on this matter?  Like you said trying to explain what you believe will probably stir up bad feelings, you won't be able to explain where they can understand, don't cast your pearls before swine, so to speak.  You would want to give an answer to any sincere questions though.  
Just take it one step at a time, and do what you are lead to do.  God will give you strength and you will know what to do when the time comes.  It's not easy, this is a big change to make.  It's like Diana said, the result is a deeper peace and joy than one could have ever had before.

John 14:27  Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

mercy, peace and love

« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 04:16:36 PM by Kat »


  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2007, 04:05:31 PM »

Hi Paul,

Like Diana, I too was part a church but not heavily involved in it. My advice would be very similar to what Kat gave, be up front and tell your church you are leaving. There is no need to tell them why, other than for personal reasons. Being from a small community myself many years ago, it matters not what they are told, for they will make their own mind up.

Personally, I would tell tham that God has opened your eyes and heart to an understanding that is in conflict with the teachings of the church. This will of course cause quite a stir, but trust me, they will not be able to prove you wrong, and neither will they be able to prove their belief. More than likely you will be told that it is not up to you to understand everything. I will leave it up to you, how you will repond to that. Speaking from experience, stating something like: "can you not with your enlightened understanding explain in such a way that I can learn" does not really work. Especially when they back down and you close with: "it's because you can't right?"

I have used this a number of times, and any further conversation promptly stopped. I guess this is the one thing I have found while in the church, NO ONE likes their faith being questioned and they will back away from you as iff you had the plauge.

It will not be pretty, but at least it will be over pretty quickly.

Trust God to give you the words and the wisdom of how to use them, and I am sure it will work better than even you imagine.

I will pray for you,



  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2007, 04:55:18 PM »

Hello Paul

Perhaps this will help in addition to what you have wisely been advised.

Ray teaches at the following link :,2641.0.html
Ref : September 2, 2007 Does All mean All? Ray's notes for this study. Quote:

BOTTOM LINE:  It is not necessary; we are not obligated; it is not incumbent upon us; we do not NEED to prove our faith to the satisfaction of those who DESPISE THE WORD OF GOD!

Whatever happens, it hurts because we are being DRAGGED.  The wonderful thing is that it is GOD who is doing the dragging! I believe that it is Babylon that resists all truth and appeals to our carnality to remain faithful to her leadership rather than to Jesus Christ and His Spirit.

Rom 8 : 7 That is because the mind of the flesh with its carnal thoughts and purposes is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God's Law; indeed it CANNOT.

Eph 5: 15 Look carefully then how you walk!  Live purposefully and worthily and accurately, not as the unwise and witless, but as wise 16. Making the very most of the time, buying up each opportunity because the days are evil. 17. Therefore do not be vague and thoughtless and foolish, but understanding and firmly grasping what the will of the Lord is. (COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE)

Col 3 ; 15 And let the peace from Christ rule, act as umpire continually in your hearts, deciding and settling with finality all questions that arise in your minds, in that peaceful state to which as members of Christ's one body you were also called to live. And be thankful, appreciative, giving praise to God always.

Peace be with you

Arcturus :)

« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 04:58:53 PM by Arcturus »


  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2007, 05:58:18 PM »

First let me say that this is just my opinion, so if it don't apply, let it fly  ;) Being in a teaching position, and having to teach doctrines that you disagree with would definately be something you personally need to remedy (as you already know). How to do this while still showing brotherly love? Well, I'd suggest giving proper notice to the pastor (or whoever is in the appropriate chain of command) and simply list "personal reasons" for stepping down. Don't just up and quit leaving the children/youth "high & dry."

Now, after stepping down from the teaching position, the question remains as to whether you should completely stop going to that fellowship. I'm sure many will disagree with me here, but I encourage you to give this much prayer and consideration. Jesus taught in the temple. He, too, was eventually "asked" to leave. In fact, they wanted to throw him off a cliff and/or stone him. So until the members actually ask you to leave, maybe you should still attend and only teach those who are willing to listen, and that, on a one-on-one, personal type basis. You can still let your light shine. If I didn't learn to "let it fly" I'd have no friends. I have yet to find an actual church where they teach and believe everything the same as I do. Even though I've attended meetings where the pastor and most of those in attendance believe in the false teachings regarding the gift of tongues, I've still seen the spirit at work. Just because we disagree on doctrine (as we do with those who are complete unbelievers) doesn't mean that we can't still be a light to them. Are you able to agree to disagree? You can spiritually "come out of them" without literally removing yourself. We are taught to walk in the spirit, regardless of whatever physical environment you're in.


  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2007, 12:47:44 AM »

Triton there are many unanswered question about your church, your relationship with the church, the authority in the church, and the people?  For instance are you discipling any younger men?  How small is the community? Why have you been put into leadership there? what is God doing in your life.
Php 4:6  Be anxious about nothing, but in everything by prayer and by petition with thanksgivings, let your requests be made known to God;
Php 4:7  and the peace of God which surpasses all understanding will keep your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.


  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2007, 01:09:19 AM »

I think it would be difficult to keep attending a church that preached free will, the trinity and eternal damnation, etc., once you know the truth.  Even a lot of the worship songs have the trinity written into the lyrics.  I love Christian music but now, when some songs like that start playing on the radio, I switch the station or turn it off for a bit  :)     What do you do in a church worship session? -- just stand there and not sing?  And if a false message is being preached, personally I wouldn't be able to sit there.  I would feel like at best, a hypocrite, and at worse, like I was betraying God.  I think this is why most people eventually leave "Babylon" but I can imagine how very hard that can be just from reading so many of these posts.  I do agree on lots of prayer and letting Him lead you.  I will pray for you Paul!


  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2007, 02:28:39 AM »


Your post touches me very deeply, specifically your words, "Afterward I felt disappointed. Nobody agreed. Yet, as I said, they couldn't really refute what I shared. They just believe what they believe. Nothing against them. They're my good friends. Maybe I'm just feeling depressed."

I believe what you are experiencing is the recognition of the price to be paid for your new Walk in Him: separation from people you have known and loved and cared a lot about for a long time.  Your depression could be a measure of grief about the potential loss of these relationships.  Also, as you said, disappointment that the wonderful truths God has blessed you to understand have fallen on deaf ears and not brought out in people the same excitement, joy and peace you experience when you contemplate them.  It is a very contradicting experience and it can be very challenging to deal with.  Please be aware that the struggle to come to terms with all of this can sow doubt in your own heart about what you believe.  You are in a very trying time right now.  I encourage you to continue to read and study all of Ray's teachings on and to continue to submit to God's work in you.  Please know this also: perhaps you are going to lose relationships as a result of these new beliefs, or maybe those relationships are going to become less than what they were.  BUT: You also have new relationships to forge with people who believe like you and who understand what God is teaching you ... everyone on this forum.  We support you; we understand you; we believe like you do.  You can always come here for fellowship and support.  If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose.  Phillipians 2:1-2.  This is who we are!  God has not abandoned you in this new walk.  No; He is ready to give you so much more than you ever had.  He loves you and He cares about you and He is doing a Good Work in you: conforming you to the image of His Son, Jesus.  Sometimes the process doesn't seem to make sense.  Trust God.  Trust in the Lord with all of your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.  Proverbs 3:5-6. 

I am praying for you.

In His Service,



  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2007, 01:57:50 PM »

Hi Paul,

I can't really give any advice because I was never in a leadership position, so don't know the steps. But the rejection you are feeling is very familiar. I was never really comfortable in church, and when I left, I quietly left, and nobody called. So, I didn't have anyone try to convince me to come back to the fold.

I know God will give you the wisdom in this situation, and it will go according to His plan. Don't worry about what you will say. You will say and do the right thing. :)




  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2007, 03:17:47 PM »

Hi Diana, Sonofone, Kat, Darren, Arcturus, Gregor, Peggy, Dawn, Cathy, Ursula

I really appreciate all of your replies. Thanks so much
I'm gonna take some time to think about what you all said.
By reading through your replies I clearly see that God works differently
in each one's life.
I'm also taking it gently with my wife regarding the new beliefs.
She read through this thread tonight. That was really cool.
We didn't discuss it, but I know she thought about it before falling

Realizing that the journey is far more important than I thought before.

Peace to you all



  • Guest
Re: struggling out
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2007, 07:27:48 PM »

Hello brother paul,

I just wanted to say i did read your post, and Lord willing i can pray for you.

You are right, there is no golden recipie that anyone can give you, well except for Christ that is ;) But He isn't exactly a mortal man is He?

Love to you brother =]

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