Jesus Church?

[sonofone]

I read Rays teaching on what happened to Jesus Church and now have some thoughts or questions. I personally have not found myself disagreeing with Ray as much as having questions that pop up based on what he has said. I want everyone here to know for future reference that a question does not have to mean disagreement. I hope that this forum can be a place to hash out some questions as I suspect Ray is pretty busy and can not possibly entertain endless questions from the masses. My question concerning the Church is more on my concept or understanding of the purpose of the Church.My basic premise for the Church stems from my understanding of Eph 4vs 11-13. I believe this scripture is still in play. If you think about it logically or at least what appears to be logical to me. The early Church was formed and had a real expectation of Christ's return in there lifetime.1st Corinthians 7vs 29-31. ch 15vs51-52 1st Thessalonians 4 vs 13-18 ch 5 vs 1-8 Hebrews10 vs22-25.Just as every generation has maintained this expectation. As we know the church being persecuted fell off so to speak. what arose from the ashes is what we now term Babylon Beginning with the Catholic Church, continuing with the Protestant Church even unto this present day. So it leads me to wonder since most of us got saved through the Church. Does God really want us to literally come out of the Church? Isn't that what Martin Luther thought he was doing. Isn't that the very reason we have so many denominations today. Everybody sees a different point,a different truth and off they go,Methodist, Baptist ,pentecostal, Seventh day Adventist. All of them essentially coming out of the Church that rose from the ashes. And now us the undeclared church,who has Christ as it's head yet bear none of the markings of Eph 4 vs 11-13. I see no scriptural reference for complete Physical detachment from the Church. Even Jesus and the Apostles continued teaching in the Synagogue. What are we doing? What gifts are in play among us that help fulfill this scripture?

[YellowStone]

Hi Sonofone

Let me begin by saying that I have no chance of doiing your questions the justice they deserve, but I will give it a try.

I will never throw all churches in one big pile, just as I would never label every church goer as being blind to any concept of truth. My reasons are clear, because over the years I have attened many churches, being members of a few. Yet I NEVER felt part of them. I could see / feel some truth, and the love and compassion of many of the people was unquestionable. But the peices never fit, there would always be gaps in their belief that no amount of faith, trust or hope could ever bridge. Would I lump a small country church with 20 or so members with the same churchs featured on TBN? No, I would not, but then I attened none of them either.

The Truth is whole, it is complete and it is free. I do not have to buy it, have blind faith in something that cannot be explained. I do not need to "fit" in to learn it, Because Christ himself never fit in. God told his people to come out of her for a reason; I always believed it was becasue I knew I was in the wrong place. I would go to churches, not wanting to believe, but wanting to find fault in every word spoken. I always knew that one day I would find a church or a group of people whom I could not fault. I just knew I would.

And I did.

One night I found Rays site and started reading. It was like a voice deep inside me began screaming  Yes!!, YES!!!!!" I think I knew I had found what I was looking for after reading the first few words, the truth of those words was so profound. Is Ray the only person speaking / teaching truth? I cannot say, but I know he is.

I know now a few other important facts. He speaks from the Scritures, not from a man made doctrine. He does not require a membership or monthy dues. He does not broadcast to the masses in a huge church or building. I learned also, that he is a simple man, not haughty or pompus, oh and that he can explain in numerous ways why he believes what he does. Just as I myself can too. It is also because those who fellowship with and because of him, are not doing so for ulterior motives, to be seen with or by someone.

It is for the reasons outlined in the above paragraph, that clearly outline the differences from the many churches that I have frequented and the truth that I have found here. There is no contest. I know exactly what God meant when He said "Do not share in her plagues." It feels great to be free. The ruth does what was promised without question.

I hope this helps a little

Love in Christ,
Darren

[dawnnnny]

Great response Darren!

I too felt the same way when I happened upon the BT site.  And when I first started participating in the forum, I truly felt like I was at a REAL church for once in my life.  I think we are so programmed to think of church as a building, yet church is a group of believers from all over the world.  There are more Ray's out there too, more teachers sharing the truth of God's word. 

I'm deprogramming myself on the saved issue (as in past tense).  I like what Ray said, called into Babylon to learn the basics, and then called out for a deeper relationship.

Sonofone, just keep reading.  I too have so many questions but I'm trying to be patient with getting answers       I'm glad you asked this question and I will be interested to see the many responses you will receive!

Blessings & Love,
Dawn

[D Student]

Hello Sonofone, you wrote:
                     
  " I see no scriptural reference for complete Physical detachment from the Church. Even Jesus and the Apostles continued teaching in the Synagogue. What are we doing? What gifts are in play among us that help fulfill this scripture? "

   I'm not so sure about this. When reading things like this, it gives me the idea of Jesus and the others
speaking TRUTH to the members/visitors of the Temples before going in to be fed LIES...
   For some reason I doubt that Jesus was invited to be a guest speaker to any Synagogue/Temple.

   At times where believers in Christ met, that was the Church. No matter where they met.

   But, I'm not positive. Maybe at that time there actually were Synagogues that let OUR SAVIOR speak.

   Maybe someone else can break this down. YellowStone!?!
                                                                                          D Student <---
P.s. I'm not sure.

[Gregor]

Well I honestly feel bummed out. There's nothing more impersonal than having "church" with a computer. To me, as I've read through some of these threads, I sense gnosticism and pride in some of the responses. Maybe it's just me, maybe just because I've had a rough day. I enjoy Rays teachings, but there has to be some earthly good application involved, not just some 'spiritual' message. Christ came from heaven to earth, and if we're to be like him, we must be willing to get "down and dirty," to serve both sinner and saint. Christ died for the whore that so many are so quick to jump ship from. How are they to hear the good news if we don't stay connected, or is this good news only for the new converts? blah.

[dawnnnny]

Hi Gregor,

I'm sorry you feel that way and I do hope its just a bad day (I have lots of those too).  I don't feel this forum is impersonal at all.  Maybe you just haven't yet experienced the love and support here.  As far as getting down & dirty to serve, I still "serve" in many ways, I talk to people about Jesus - people at work, my family, etc.  There are plenty of people out there to see our light shine.  I firmly believe that God puts people in our path whether we attend a church or not. 

I'm not an expert on leaving Babylon.  I never felt comfortable there to begin with and I've been a believer for over 20 years.  But I know people (even my own family) who are very implanted in their church.  There are those in the forum now that are struggling over what to do and I sympathize with them.  But if God truly is calling us OUT - there must be a reason.

Anyway, I just wanted to respond to your post and offer a little encouragement.  This forum really is a blessing.  Even if you don't post and only read, you will be still be blessed.  I hope you will stick around and see for yourself!

Blessings, peace and love to you !

Dawn 

[DuluthGA]

Hi Sonofone,

You "see no scriptural reference for complete physical detachment from the church." (??)  Allow my scriptural theme paper to perhaps enlighten you, posted in Off Topics recently.  I add verses to it as I find them, entitled "Please don't build another church."  No preaching, just scriptures:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5250.0.html

If you can gain a historical perspective put simply... the Old Testament was in place, then Jesus came and the New Testament started.  Those O.T. believers (Jews) were to 'come out" of that (false/not the right one) religious system, into the new system.  The new system got started, went awry*, and Jesus's spirit and His Word calls to those believers to yet "come out" of that (false/not the right one) system, Babylon.  It's all a process.  But don't lose sight of the asterisk*===>

* the truth NEVER left a certain few down through all the ages until now... humanity has been rambling around and around in God-given blindness since Christ arose from the dead.  God HAS GIVEN JUST A FEW THE TRUTH and ALWAYS HAS UNTIL NOW.  If you have an inkling that you may be among them, get on your knees and ask for more.

You ask "Even Jesus and the Apostles continued teaching in the Synagogue." (??)  Have you NOT read any of Ray's material?  Most of us forum members have attempted to do our homework, so to speak; I realize you are new.  Reading and researching our own specific questions.  If you need to be updated on specific search tools, I would be happy to update you.

Sure Paul and others TAUGHT there for awhile in transition times... there were LOTS of transitions in the very early first century.  They knew they had a captive audience at the synagogues.  But did they go there to WORSHIP?  I think not.  And their approach to going there for teaching soon faded in favor of the home-based gatherings of N.T. believers as God gave the ekklesia to grow.

You really need to read: http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html as well as all the basics on the home page as most of us have, dear soul.  You will be much stronger for it.

"What are we doing? What gifts are in play among us that help fulfill this scripture?"

Multitudes, Sonofone, multitudes.  Just hang around this forum and you'll see! 

With His peace,
Janice

[Gregor]

Dawn,
Thanks for the encouragement. I think this is impersonal because I don't see any faces, just pictures of scenerey, books, etc. It's like talking to people that I never even see, touch, hear their voice, or even know their real names (in some cases). Only words. And chances are, we will never meet until that great day which is to come. Although the compassion in the messages may feel encouraging, or may cause the "light-bulb" to go off, I find the simple act of shaking a hand or receiving a hug worth a thousand words. In the book of Acts, we see how the early church gathered and helped feed one another, both spiritually and physically. James 2:14-26 speaks of the importance of the "face-to-face" expression of our faith. What comes of James 5:14, 16? How do we fulfill these specifics through a computer? How about James 5:19,20, to bring back the erring? I agree that the reasons for many churches today are for the wrong reasons, built on false doctrines, as Ray thoroughly explains, but to only fellowship with believers via the internet is somewhat disheartening to me. I have learned to "agree to disagree" and am able to "come out of babylon" spiritually, but to simply walk away, for me, would be wrong. A personal favorite verse of mine is James 1:27 NKJV: Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. It's that simple to me, in defining religion. I can worship God in spirit and in truth, regardless of how other's choose to express their beliefs. And my fellowshipping with them doesn't mean I endorse their individual beliefs. It allows me opportunity to become friends with them and introduce them to the pure truth, hopefully fulfilling Js.5:19,20.

[Gregor]

I see on BT that there are meetings held at hotels once in a while, but I could never afford to get there. I'm here in Canada and there's nothing like that here (at least I'm not aware of). Also, I wonder, if something like the LOF is spiritual, not to be taken literal, then how come so many in this forum take the "come out of babylon" so literal??

[Gregor]

Final thought, how about Mt.7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. I would hope that others wont bail on me just because I believe differently.

[skydreamers]

Even Jesus and the Apostles continued teaching in the Synagogue.

Hi sonofone,

I suspect they taught in the synagogue because that's were people were gathering, and the message was preached first to the Jews...Jesus said He came unto His own, and His own would not receive Him.  The point is the Jews (and now the spiritual Jews...the ones called out of the world...Christians) reject the true Messiah.  They can't receive Him and in fact want to kill Him.

Luke 4:16-30
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read.  And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,  "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." (isn't this what UR is all about?  isn't this what we all here believe?)

And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. And he began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."

And all spoke well of him and marveled at the gracious words that were coming from his mouth.

(but then look what happens)

And they said, "Is not this Joseph's son?" And he said to them, "Doubtless you will quote to me this proverb, 'Physician, heal yourself.' What we have heard you did at Capernaum, do here in your hometown as well."  And he said, "Truly, I say to you, no prophet is acceptable in his hometown.  But in truth, I tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heavens were shut up three years and six months, and a great famine came over all the land, and Elijah was sent to none of them but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow.  And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of the prophet Elisha, and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian."

When they heard these things, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath. (the church will not tolerate the truth of "many called, few chosen" and what it really means)

And they rose up and drove him out of the town and brought him to the brow of the hill on which their town was built, so that they could throw him down the cliff.

But passing through their midst, he went away.

I believe the church (all of them) are in the same condition today.  If God wants you to share this truth, it doesn't matter where you are, you can be sure you WILL share it.  But some try to remain in the church and find they can't tolerate the lies and so they leave.  Others get kicked out for speaking out on their belief.  It really does look like those that are "chosen" will eventually "come out of" Babylon.  This is part of the process.  Now whether that means only "spiritually" or also "physically" is what often gets disputed.  Each person has to figure that out for themselves.

I think Ray has said many times, if they would have him in the churches and allow Him to preach his message directly after the pastor/preacher, he would gladly do it.   
Show Ray's writings to your pastor and see if he would invite Ray down to do some preaching to the congregation....

Even when Paul preached in the synagogues, though there were ones who received the message, there were yet other Jews who would come along and stir up trouble which would lead to Paul being sent away.  Paul eventually focused on the Gentiles.

Yes the message has to get out there, but it looks like God is doing a pretty good job of drawing His people to the truth without using the church.  In fact, I have yet to read a testimony from someone on this forum, who received the truth from a fellow church member, or from a sermon at church.

Almost everybody has gone through a spiritual crisis of some sort and somehow "stumbled" upon this site or others which began to show them these truths.  Or others were exposed to these teachings by friends and family members already out of 'Babylon'.  Many have seen the truths on their own through their own studies but didn't know what to do with it at the time, until they learned that they can indeed come out of the physical Church temple and simply be God's spiritual temple and be a part of the House of the Living God, fellowshipping in spirit with the rest of the salt scattered throughout the earth.

Either way, you have to go where you feel the Lord is leading you. 

Peace and love to ya,
Diana 

[D Student]

 "Christ died for the whore that so many are so quick to jump ship from. How are they to hear the good news if we don't stay connected "
Gregor, I don't think you're getting it...
 
  I can tell you that I didn't just Jump Ship and kept this wonderful secret to myself. I 've done what was I was directed to do. If & when I ever go to CHURCH, it's to tell a different message to believers. Me going to any place where there are people who already have an idea or some amount of belief/faith in Jesus, there might be some who are seeking Truth and not acceptind such an Evil way of serving our FATHER.

  Sad to say, only one out of Thousands will even want to dig a little deeper, but that doesn't mean we should stop.
You know, I've seen a few new threads lately where people are talking about how happy they are to see the Ttruth now, but are sad/scared to tell others at their Church about it. I don't get it. Well in a way I do, but how can you be anything other than happy???

  Do they want to serve their Lord and be liked by everyone else? It's not gonna' happen and I've already chosen to
stay on that path. Not one person in my Life is with me in my beliefs(other than B.T people) and EVERYBODY I know
has done away with me. What greater prize could I get? How much more proof do I need to see that I'm on track?

  I've also learned, preaching to the Drug dealers/users, Club goers, prostitutes, Gangmembers , Etc on the mean streets is not what my Father has asked us/me to do. It's the ones who are still lost and continue to be slaves of the world & the Temples they'll serve before they give anything to the one they claim is their Father.

 I do understand how some people get the idea that we have found a new way of living and we are to just forget everything & everyone else, but that's not the way. Ofcourse I'm not saying to go to any Church and try raining on their parade. You'll be the Enemy and won't do any good. Study, Pray for direction & counsel, then when it's time, you'll know what to do because you won't be alone.

 You would not believe how many times I've been lead to people so that I can share the GOOD NEWS. Also admmiting that for this very reason, I don't go out much. Every time I go somewhere, God or Jesus or Church is mentioned by whoever is around me and I can't shut up when I hear LIES and CONFUSION of what is true.
 The only bad part is, they end up hating me, no matter how soft spoken & friendly I bring info across to them.
But I wake up the next day and realize that I did nothing wrong and only repeated what was in their BIBLES.

  Well to sum it all up, I'll go where ever I'm lead to, say what ever comes to me, and show love to anyone who asks me what I think. That doesn't mean I'll continue to go to a Church and blind myself by living a lie.
If I was to do that, I'd be in the wrong by staying quiet and letting these DoDo birds jump into the hole.

  Make sure you read and try to understand what Ray writes about and don't focus so much on what the members of this Forum will say. They're wonderfull people and some are on point, but opinions can & will cloud minds...

                                                                                                                     D Student

[sonofone]

This is exactly what I was hoping for. The feedback has been great. It stirs the mind and soul. I have to admit while reading certain responses that suggest I need only read more of Rays materials to get my answers, works on my carnal nature. In other words THEMS FIGHTING WORDS TO ME!!! But I thank God for his spirit which allows me to put that in check. I don't ever want to do or say something to damage my relationship with any of you. Not even the ones that remind me that I yet have a carnal nature that wants to rise up and fight. I truly Love you all, I am privileged to have found you. Before this site i was asleep as I have mentioned on other post for about ten years. I am now alive, awake. It feels great to be in this place both naturally,and spiritually. I hope that we will continue to hash this out,not like a cat that bats at a ball of yarn. Rather working to find the common ground if you will. I have already began to see some commonground in your responses. Thank You! There will be more questions to come from me in the future.

[javajoe]

Final thought, how about Mt.7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. I would hope that others wont bail on me just because I believe differently.

Hi Gregor!  (and forum people)! 

We seem to be kindred spirits on this forum.  I must admit I have been avoiding the forum the past few days (beside being way too busy on out of town business) because some of the points you brought up.  I, too, attend a local church.  I know the people there love the Lord and lives are being changed.  I know I am not more spiritual than they, and for me to call them "Babylon" would be the ultimate in arrogance.  I have just been privileged to be exposed to another point of view that speaks truth to me, and is helping me spiritually.

I believe we do need to get down and dirty, and fight injustice in this world, and Christ's injunction that you just quoted should rule in our lives.  I was thinking particularly about Corrie ten Boom and her family, who hid Jews from Nazi murderers.  Certainly, she was obeying Christ's command that you mentioned. And she had to break the law to do it!  If that situation were to repeat itself, what would be the attitude of some people on this forum?  Would they ignore what was going on, saying "this is just God's will" or "this is a political matter and I must not get involved", or "we are to submit the rulers of the land", or would they "obey God rather than man", and "do unto others what you would have them do unto you".  Believe me, if someone were hunting me down unjustly, I would hope someone would be kind enough to provide a way of escape for me.  Would those someones perhaps be people on this forum?  I would hope.

I am REALLY sorry for being so cynical, and sorry that some of you will be offended.  This forum and Ray's teaching have helped me tremendously, and please rebuke me if I am wrong about the attitude I sense.

In Christ,

JavaJoe

[sonofone]

Beautiful post JavaJoe. the best thing about your post in my opinion is your spirit. Thats what I listen for when I read post on this forum. I sense your heart for God and your willingness to expose yourself to these people on this forum to check your spirit. I don't think anybody on here can rightfully have a problem with this. I think we should all throw ourselves in or on this fire so that God can Burn off anything that is not of or like him. Thank you Brother.

[ciy]

This is all a matter of the heart.  

Do you love God in your heart or in your flesh?  

Does the Word of God mean anything to you?  

Are you not completely heart broken that you ever thought that God would punish people in hell for an eternity?  

What was God's response to the Israelites that wanted to return to Egypt?  

Do you want to worship in a synagogue of satan?  

Are you afraid of what the christians will say about you?  

Are you afraid of being thrown out of the synagogue?

Do the people that are in church love God or is it another Jesus that they worship?

Do the people that are in churches that back going to war in Iraq love the Word of God?

Do you want to stay in church because you care more about what men think than what the Word of God says?

Are you called out to separate yourself from the world (church system)?

Do you want to know the truth?

Here is the truth:
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" Revelation 18:4

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" 1 Corinthians 1:10

There are 30,000 church denominations and we are called out of those divisions in order to be one in heart and mind.  A peculiar people.  Are you a peculiar person or are you just one of the multitudes?

God does not dwell in houses made with men's hands.  God dwells in you.

Just asking a few questions in love.
CIY

 

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Javajoe,

If we follow the spiritual laws of Christ the physical compliance takes care of itself. Take for instance lusting and/or coveting, if you do not lust in your heart are you prone to committing adultery or fornication? If you do not covet the possessions of others will you be prone to thievery?

The point you raise is a variation on the theme, "would you take a chip implant?"
What are we to do in this bit of suppostion or that scenario really goes against "do not worry for the morrow" instruction from the Lord. If we are following Christ in spirit then we will help out a person in need regardless of any man made laws, we are commanded to treat others as we would be treated, if we are following this command we would certainly help a person fleeing the danger of a Nazi type government.

You mention it is our duty to fight injustice in the world. Well, that depends on what exactly you mean, do we take up arms against terrorists, do we become vigilante's in our cities and neighborhoods?
Christ has declared victory over the world and will judge it/them/us  accordingly, do we need to take this a step further or do we have faith in His Word?

I do think that when we create hypothetical situations predicated on what we will do of our own mind and reasoning rather than the faith He will provide an answer at the time the situation arises is carnal thinking, I am not trying to sidestep anything but the result of our own efforts will always produce spiritual failure.

His peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe 

[Falconn003]

A M E N

Joe


...........

[indianabob]

Good Morning Gregor and JavaJoe,

I find much with which to empathize in both of your comments.

If we think about it the history of the true church as well as the institutional church has been the will of God. 

God's plan includes everyone and when we are examined in the spiritual lake of fire we have to examine ourselves, our motives and the mis-information that burdened us when we were apart from God's direct influence.

Apparently, God is working out a plan to allow each of us, until chosen, to walk alone as far as we wish to.  Even when we/you are in a church congregation and serving one another or serving the ones that the leaders choose for you to serve, e.g the needy, the prisoner, the afflicted, it is not very much different than serving in the Lions club or a Youth Center. 

Sure we put on special robes to sing Hymns or the Priests wear identifying collars so folks will feel comfortable sharing personal feelings with them, but it's really just good old human fellowship that we observe.  People need people and we naturally gravitate to any organization that feeds our needs, the need to serve and the need to be served.  Putting a 'religious' blanket around our service to others doesn't prove it is of GOD. 

I empathize with Gregor being so far away from 'live' human contact of a like mind and I think that I can share in that same loneliness because I used to be a member of the WCG and was able to fellowship with hundreds of like minded, loving folks, many of whom I still see on a regular basis, mostly at funerals.

What comes to mind as far as close fellowship in my mind is something like a young person, which we are since we just got started learning the REAL truth in the recent few years, who is leaving home and going away to college to find the 'pearl of great value'.  It is going to be lonely, it is supposed to be lonely because we are to change, to grow, to stretch ourselves as God leads us to understand His will and many of us need the time alone to reflect and meditate on what is happening to us.

I don't know about anyone else, but I am not ready to teach at this stage of my development.  I understand that my task will be to teach, but I am working among the faithful here on BT so that when I stumble and falter there will be pairs of loving hands to lift me up and dust me off so that my education may continue.

Please fellows, let us be patient with God and with ourselves and not worry too much about sharing all that we have recently learned about God.  None of our friends or our family members are in any danger of losing their immortal life or the life of the age to come.  None of us is in any danger of disappointing God and Christ because we didn't act quickly to convert each person who asked of us the reason for our faith.  Our Father and our Elder Brother are VERY patient and in addition they have the power to give us the correct words IF and WHEN it becomes urgent based upon THEIR judgment.

This week I am preparing a bible study to share with a small, local congregation that doesn't have a minister.  The topic will be on the joy of serving God and how God has a plan to bring joy to every person who has ever lived. 

The inspiration came from a book one of the members loaned me called; The Kingdom of God is a PARTY, by Tony Campolo.  As you may imagine, I am not going to teach with authority concerning doctrine.  The folks would listen and even participate in the discussion, but the doctrines wouldn't remain with them because they would just filter them out automatically through the traditions they have always known.  It is my hope however that they will come away with less fear of the future in their minds.

Really, all that I am going to do is leave with them the memory that I served them willingly and that I enjoy being in their company and that they can call upon me anytime they are lonely and in need.  LATER, in a thousand years or so, who knows, we will meet again and with perfect recall, I will greet them and give them a big loving hug and welcome them into the Kingdom of our Lord.

Each of us walks this journey alone at some human level.  We who are called and chosen are no longer alone and never again will be, so let's be thankful for that and patiently learn to exercise the spirit of Christ within us and practice what we are learning until we are better prepared to share with those whom we will serve
in spirit and in truth.

Thanks for reading and please comment.

Regards, Bob

[sonofone]

Joe this seems to be a perfect response to another question I have going called Peter Walked On Water.Thanks!