appointed/ordained

[hillsbororiver]

However we all still being created in his Image will eventualy overcome all lust and enemies of the Spirit including the last enemy DEATH and brought to the fullness of Jesus the Christ.

Does " will eventually overcome all lust" happen during our physical life?  That is the reality I am trying to get to know.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Do I believe that we will overcome all lust/coveting/etc. while in our flesh?

No.

We will be tested (tried) our entire time in the flesh, we will become more and more able to resist temptation (through Him) as we grow (in Spirit) and mature but we will not be perfected until the resurrection.

Read what James writes here, the implication is that lust will rear its ugly head and if we embrace this lust it culminates in sin, while maybe not actually physically doing the act if we hold it (lust) dear it is the same as doing it.

Jas 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This burdon and tribulation of falling to the things we have learned to hate will be a struggle until our final breath.

Rom 5:21  That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

I am not aware of any NT writer who made the claim of being sinless in the flesh, quite the opposite, we all will have a "thorn in the flesh of some sort until we finish the race, enduring all the while.

1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1Co 15:56  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1Co 15:57  But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 15:58  Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

Don't be discouraged when these things present themselves, whatever particular weakness any of us may have (multiple choices for me) the victory is assured if we remain faithful, we all know that Paul lamented over his failings too but he never gave up his faith or running of the race.

Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Rom 7:22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[DuluthGA]

"God has brought you here for a reason ..... This forum is titled Bible-Truths for a reason; truth can be found here."

Darren...Amen, bro.  Let it be so!

"Oh and I promise I will NEVER make you look small and ridicule you and I will defend your right to ask."

Cool beans bro.  Good spirit!!


APPLAUSE          APPLAUSE          APPLAUSE           APPLAUSE

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Rodger

I can see how much I DON'T KNOW when I read your posts. I feel like the disciples who asked Jesus to explain the parable of the farmer and the seeds.

Please share what you see with this blind child.

Is it US, humanity who are represented by the tree of good and evil because nothing we do is good and only the Spirit of God who lives in us by His Grace is the Divine influence on our hearts?

Are all the other trees in the garden those people who are in the world? The others nations, peoples and religions, tribes, cultures and belief systems.

The tree of Life and of Good and Evil in the middle of the garden is that the middle of the world when we get surrounded on all sides with oppression then like Shadrach Meshack and Abed-nego in the furnace we walk with Christ?

Please share more....

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Harryfeat]

Hello Arcturus,

I don't know about anyone else's interpretation, but here is one that I think fits with Romans 7 pretty well as it talks about sin being at the heart of man.

Adam and Eve were created with sinful hearts.  The didn't know they were sinning. In fact Eve didn't know she had sinned with lust of the fruit until she actually ate the fruit and gained the knowledge that she had sinned.

-the tree of life represents spritual life, symbolic of Christ [righteous heart of man]
-the tree of knowledge of good and evil represents the law.  also death through sin.[sinful heart of man]
-the trees are both located at the center or heart of the garden. 

With the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve gained the knowledge that they had sinned and of their sinful heart , it also brought about spiritual death  as promised.

the fruit of  the tree of life will provide spiritual life,  a heart of righteousness through Christ.


I haven't really thought much about what the other trees might represent.  Perhaps someone else might have some ideas.

That's just one view. I would also like to hear more.

be blessed
feat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Rodger

Apologies for the late responce. THANK YOU for your post elaborating on the Scriptures. 

I find your following statement very compelling and thought provoking. Quote : A Spiritual enlightened work in progress, could the 1st part be the creation of flesh, and the 2nd part an in depth look at the creation of a living soul's Spiritual strife....Unquote

Y-E-S it could!

Dazzling! We know that this is supported in the Word of God. Quoting Ray from http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD

[A] "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the Last Adam [Jesus Christ] was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:45-46).

"It is sown [first] a NATURAL BODY [a physical body which dies]; it is raised [afterward] a SPIRITUAL BODY [which is made immortal and never dies]..." (I Cor. 15:44).

[C] "Who shall change our [first] VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto His [afterward] GLORIOUS BODY..." (Phil. 3:21).

[D] "If I have told you EARTHLY things [first], and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of HEAVENLY [spiritual] things [afterward]?" (John 3:12).

The sequence of God's plan of salvation for mankind is most important—First is the physical and then comes the spiritual.


Rodger, I get the distinct impression that you know much more than you are letting on! Pondering thoughts with accessable fellowships is surely the way to discovering HIS Truths with the safety of council and like minded enthusiasts who also desire to know the Truth and only the Truth.

The benefits from your exchange of thoughts or any exchange of thoughts seeking more substance or evaluation, makes others think! That, I believe is a most positive constructive result and work that has to progress!

1 Tim 4:8 For physical training is of some value, useful for a little,but godliness, spiritual training is useful and of value in EVERYTHING  and in  EVERY WAY, for it holds promise for the present life and also for The Life which is to come.

Peace to you Brother

Arcturus

[Deborah-Leigh]

Decisions decisions

[Gregor]

Greetings Rodger,
You said, "In the 1st part man is permitted to eat of all the trees. no exceptions" when actually there are exceptions attatched.
Gen 1:29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
The condition attached is that the tree must contain fruit that yields seed. Perhaps the fruit on the tree of knowledge of good and evil contains no seed? Not sure what that implies exactly, but something to consider.
G.
Copied from a link from Google:
GRADE: Fifth

CONTENT STANDARD: Life Science

CONTENT TOPIC: Plants

CONCEPT: Plants have complex structures with specialized functions.

CONTENT OBJECTIVE: 5F1.00 To understand the characteristics of seed bearing and non-seed bearing plants

There are two groups of seed bearing plants. One group of seed bearing plants has cones. These are called gymnosperms. Their seeds are called cones. The conifers are one large group of gymnosperms. This group supplies wood and wood products. They keep their leaves year round. Some examples are pines, redwood, fir, spruce, and cypress. (Show examples on pictures, posters, or plants that are gymnosperms.) The other group of seed bearing plants is called angiosperms. This group supplies beauty, cloth, wood, medicine and food. They lose their leaves each year. Some examples are tulips, wheat, rice, cotton, tomatoes and many others. These plants have flowers. (Show examples on pictures, posters, or plants that are angiosperms.)
Seed bearing plants have chlorophyll. They make their own food by the process called photosynthesis. (Review photosynthesis: Plants use the sun, water, carbon dioxide, and energy combine to make sugar and oxygen.) They have tubes for water.

How many of you have changed since you were born? (pause) Do plants go through changes after the seeds are planted? (response) Today we are going to talk about the different life cycles of different kinds of plants.
All organisms have life cycles. A plant's life cycle includes its germination, growth, production of new plants, and death. Different kinds of plants have different life cycles. Some plants have a short life cycle; others have a longer one. Annuals are plants that begin as seeds, grow, and die within one year or one growing season. Some examples are corn, beans, marigolds and zinnias. Biennials are plants that complete these life cycle in two years or two growing seasons. The first year, these plants will have roots, stems and leaves. The second year, they will grow flowers and form fruit and seeds. The plant will die after the second year. Some examples are beets, strawberries and hollyhocks. The third group of plants is called perennials. Perennials live more than two years before their life cycle is complete. At the end of each growing season, a part of the plant will remain alive in a bulb or in the roots. The leaves and stems will die on some plants, on other plants even the stems will remain. Some examples are tulips, daisies, lilies and trees.

Today we are going to learn about some plants that do not have flowers or cones. They are called non-seed bearing plants.
Non-seed bearing plants reproduce without seeds. They produce spores instead. Spores are tiny reproductive cells that grow into new plants. One plant may make millions of spores. Ferns are one type of seedless plant. The spores of ferns grow on the underside of the leaves. Ferns have transport tubes to carry food and water.
Moss is another type of seedless plant. The spores of a moss form in a capsule on top of a small stalk. Mosses do not have transport systems or veins, instead food and water move from cell to cell.
Fungi is another type of seedless plant. Fungi has no chlorophyll and depends on other organisms.
Algae is another type of non-seed plant. Algae produce their own food. Algae are grouped by color. Green scum can be seen growing on the surface of a pond.

And from Wikpedia:

Reproduction
Plants can propagate through both sexual and asexual reproduction. Many plants can generate a genetic clone through a process called vegetative reproduction, which does not involve meiosis, gamete formation, or fertilization. This type of propagation involves the development of shoots and roots from a number of tissues such as stems, roots, and leaves. Many crops, grasses, and trees are developed using this type of cloning instead of by seed. Examples include Potatoes, Bananas, Aspen, Poplar, Willow, Strawberry, Avocado, Fig, Pineapple, citrus fruits (Lemon, Orange, Grapefruit), nut crops (Walnut, Pecan), and pome fruits (Apple, Pear).

Sexual reproduction begins through pollination. Pollination happens when the pollen (male gamete) comes in contact with the stigma (female organ) of the same or a different flower. Pollen transport is accomplished either by drifting in the wind or being carried to another flower by insects, such as bees. After pollination the pollen grain germinates, then begin to grow a pollen tube down the style, through the wall of the ovary and into an ovule (incipient seed). As the pollen tube grows, two sperm are produced - one unites with female gamete, the other unites with the central cell of the ovule and produces the endosperm of the seed.

Growth
Unlike most animals and humans, plants continue to grow as long as they live. They can also be defined as functionally immortal. Although many have adapted to annual lifecycles where necessary, all types of plants grow as perennials where conditions allow, and only die as a result of trauma, pathogenicity, or when their basic requirements for life are not met.

Plants have the unique ability to grow in specific directions as a response to a number of external stimuli. This phenomena is known as a tropism, which can be a positive or negative growth. For example, the response of plants to gravity (geotropism), is positive/toward the stimulus in roots, and negative in the stems where growth is in the opposite direction. Plant shoots are stimulated to grow toward sunlight (phototropism). Hydrotropism is a response to water, chemotropism to a chemical stimulus, and thigmotropism is a response to physical contact, which causes tendrils of climbing plants to grow when they touch a support and then grow around it.

[Kat]

Hi Rodger,

My post was not meant as an admonishment, but was intended to show you that bit of the conference audio, that you may not have seen.
I've been reading your posts with interest.  Thanks for sharing your insights 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[hillsbororiver]

basicaly what i was going to get too, before i was stopped in my train of thought, by those who fear the thinking process of the Spirit.

I do however continue too invest my TALENT, with family, friends and in a PMs avenue of Fellowship with like minds.

No intentions of stirring awake nor upsetting anyone who is satisfied with thier buried TALENTS in life.

 

This is a QUESTION i was trying to elaborate when i felt the rug pull from under me.

Please note if this is upsetting to some i have no problem stopping and withdrawing from this thread !!

Rodger,

Is this incessent in your face confrontational style really necessary? We should be able to exchange thoughts, ideas and questions without the leaven of adding our personal frustrations. Does patience, peace, longsuffering and brotherly kindness only apply to some?

We have discussed this before and it is my hope we can edify and encourage each other here, I do not see these type of comments as particularly encouraging or edifying, in fact just the opposite.

There is no doubt that you raise some good points and have for the entire time I have known you but as Paul states;

1 Corinthians 13

1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

We are all aware that Jesus spoke with sarcasm and scathing rebukes to the hypocritical religious leaders and Pharisees but He did not do this to those who earnestly sought wisdom without guile or an ulterior motive, I see no guile or ulterior motives presented by those who have been responding here in this thread. Please do not take a request for clarification as a personal challenge to be defensive or accusational about.

Please.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Gregor]

Greetings Rodger,
I don't want to appear to be "pulling the rug out from under you." In fact, I think you're on to something here. I just think that there may be more meaning than we're noticing. And there is a difference in the trees which produce fruit, and ones which produce fruit with seeds. Although there may be different types of fruit, I find it interesting that each has a very different means of reproduction, lifespan, and even a different process for feeding ie photosynthesis. When applying the method of looking at types in the scriptures, I can see many parallels. One being photosynthesis - the means of producing food by way of light, Jesus being our light, spiritual food. I don't have time to really explain more, but thought you may want to look a little deeper. In any case, I don't feel threatened or offended in any way, and really enjoy studying the story of Adam and Eve. I have many questions myself, just not the time at the moment. One theory you may want to look into is the Jewish tradition of story telling. I heard in church once that traditionally they would give an overview, and then go into details. Just a thought. Anyways, got to run. All the best.
G.

[Falconn003]

Gregor

I do not think you would be jolly to pull the rug out from under me.....

I do appreciate the insight you have just now posted,,,,very interesting points you bring up i did not even know,,,imagine that...yes i am human....

I especially like the parrallel comparison of Jesus our Light to the sun's light on plants.

Seems a bountiful of Spiritual insightfulness to grasp at,,,,,,,,,like gerado who opend a old tome of nothing.......am ever more cautious and but for the moment i await.

Peace and guidance
Rodger

[Deborah-Leigh]

Ahhh faith like the Mustard seed Rodger!

"Each of us is an original." Last line of Galatians 5 The Message translation

Many trees. One mustard seed. One Christ.

The mustard seeds begins small and grows into the tallest tree dwarfing the others and provides nesting shade and protection for any who seek refuge in rest under its mantle of greatness and generosity.

Peace and goodwill

Arcturus

[Redbird]

Dear Rodger,

Thanks for posting those Genesis scriptures.  This is a doublet of the bible to me.  There seems to be two accounts of creation.   Also, note that in Genesis 1:27, it says God created man.  Then in Genesis 2:7, it says The LORD God formed man. Ray says pay attention to the words.  The words are very different here.  Are God and the LORD God one and the same?
Thoughts to ponder.

Hi Kat,  Thank you for the audio link.  I am going to listen to what Ray has to say about this too.

Peace, Lisa

[Gregor]

Greetings,
Perhaps the point is that in the flesh, we must travail, whereas with the installment of the spirit, it is as simple as God speaking it into existance? Just as man now toils,sweats, producing thorns and thistles, and eats the herb of the field (as opposed to the fruit of the tree) when he tries to live according to the flesh, rather than the spirit. Sound like some tv ministries, or even ourselves when we take our eyes off Jesus?

[Redbird]

Ah, Rodger,
Older and wiser my friend.

Dear Gregor,
Well spoken!

Peace and Love to you brothers, Lisa

[Gregor]

Greetings,

I thought it might be easier to see some spiritual implications if we substituted "People" for plant(s) into this info. Keep in mind that the scriptures also refer to "pleasant to the eyes, and "good for food" as purpose relating to the trees and their fruits.

CONCEPT: "People" have complex structures with specialized functions.

CONTENT OBJECTIVE: 5F1.00 To understand the characteristics of seed bearing and non-seed bearing "People"

There are two groups of seed bearing "People." One group of seed bearing "People" has cones. These are called gymnosperms. Their seeds are called cones. The conifers are one large group of gymnosperms. This group supplies wood and wood products. They keep their leaves year round. Some examples are pines, redwood, fir, spruce, and cypress. The other group of seed bearing "People" is called angiosperms. This group supplies beauty, cloth, wood, medicine and food. They lose their leaves each year. Some examples are tulips, wheat, rice, cotton, tomatoes and many others. These "People" have flowers.
Seed bearing "People" have chlorophyll. They make their own food by the process called photosynthesis. (Review photosynthesis: "People" use the sun, water, carbon dioxide, and energy combine to make sugar and oxygen.) They have tubes for water.

How many of you have changed since you were born? (pause) Do "People" go through changes after the seeds are planted? (response) Today we are going to talk about the different life cycles of different kinds of "People".
All organisms have life cycles. A "People"s life cycle includes its germination, growth, production of new "People", and death. Different kinds of "People" have different life cycles. Some "People" have a short life cycle; others have a longer one. Annuals are "People" that begin as seeds, grow, and die within one year or one growing season. Some examples are corn, beans, marigolds and zinnias. Biennials are "People" that complete these life cycle in two years or two growing seasons. The first year, these "People" will have roots, stems and leaves. The second year, they will grow flowers and form fruit and seeds. The "People" will die after the second year. Some examples are beets, strawberries and hollyhocks. The third group of "People" is called perennials. Perennials live more than two years before their life cycle is complete. At the end of each growing season, a part of the plant will remain alive in a bulb or in the roots. The leaves and stems will die on some "People", on other "People" even the stems will remain. Some examples are tulips, daisies, lilies and trees.

Today we are going to learn about some "People" that do not have flowers or cones. They are called non-seed bearing "People".
Non-seed bearing "People" reproduce without seeds. They produce spores instead. Spores are tiny reproductive cells that grow into new "People". One plant may make millions of spores. Ferns are one type of seedless plant. The spores of ferns grow on the underside of the leaves. Ferns have transport tubes to carry food and water.
Moss is another type of seedless "People". The spores of a moss form in a capsule on top of a small stalk. Mosses do not have transport systems or veins, instead food and water move from cell to cell.
Fungi is another type of seedless "People". Fungi has no chlorophyll and depends on other organisms.
Algae is another type of non-seed "People". Algae produce their own food. Algae are grouped by color. Green scum can be seen growing on the surface of a pond.

And from Wikpedia:

Reproduction (Spiritually?)
"People" can propagate through both sexual and asexual reproduction. Many "People" can generate a genetic clone through a process called vegetative reproduction(Spiritually?), which does not involve meiosis, gamete formation, or fertilization. This type of propagation involves the development of shoots and roots from a number of tissues such as stems, roots, and leaves. Many crops, grasses, and trees are developed using this type of cloning instead of by seed. Examples include Potatoes, Bananas, Aspen, Poplar, Willow, Strawberry, Avocado, Fig, Pineapple, citrus fruits (Lemon, Orange, Grapefruit), nut crops (Walnut, Pecan), and pome fruits (Apple, Pear).

Sexual reproduction begins through pollination. Pollination happens when the pollen (male gamete) comes in contact with the stigma (female organ) of the same or a different flower. Pollen transport is accomplished either by drifting in the wind or being carried to another flower by insects, such as bees. After pollination the pollen grain germinates, then begin to grow a pollen tube down the style, through the wall of the ovary and into an ovule (incipient seed). As the pollen tube grows, two sperm are produced - one unites with female gamete, the other unites with the central cell of the ovule and produces the endosperm of the seed.

Growth(Spiritually?)
Unlike most animals and humans, "People" continue to grow as long as they live. They can also be defined as functionally immortal. Although many have adapted to annual lifecycles where necessary, all types of "People" grow as perennials where conditions allow, and only die as a result of trauma, pathogenicity, or when their basic requirements for life are not met.

"People" have the unique ability to grow in specific directions as a response to a number of external stimuli. This phenomena is known as a tropism, which can be a positive or negative growth. For example, the response of "People" to gravity (world's attraction?)(geotropism), is positive/toward the stimulus in roots, and negative in the stems where growth is in the opposite direction. "People's" shoots are stimulated to grow toward sunlight (phototropism). Hydrotropism is a response to water, chemotropism to a chemical stimulus, and thigmotropism is a response to physical contact, which causes tendrils of climbing "People" to grow when they touch a support and then grow around it.

Cool heh?
G.

[Falconn003]

VERY KEWL !!


Rodger

[Deborah-Leigh]

Yes.

"I am the true vine...." John 15:1

Our support is Christ. He is our intercessor with the Father.

Excellent exchange going on in this thread. Thank you Rodger and Gregor. I am happy this is happening in the open for us smaller plants!

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Redbird]

Some scriptures to support this thread;

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Now, the good news ~ Jesus

John 15:16 You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain; that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Peace to all, Lisa

[Gregor]

Rodger,

When we live and walk in the spirit, yes, God is indwelling and just like with Adam, we walk with God in the "Garden of God's Good Pleasure."