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Author Topic: Righteous Indignation!!  (Read 4458 times)

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sonofone

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Righteous Indignation!!
« on: September 19, 2007, 09:57:44 AM »

Today I awakened listening to the Televangelist. There is one in particular I listen to almost for mental sport,Just to hear her speak error after error to keep my mind and spirit sharp. This morning I felt something that I don't recall ever having felt before. Righteous Indignation. I am sick of the ministers of hell and death hijacking Jesus Church. They keep sincere minded believers from realizing the truth. I feel like praying that God will begin to expose them for what they are and raise up his people to show forth his true nature. I think we all can admit that the physical Church both has and has had some value,why can't we take it back. It started off with the righteous, The Apostles. Overtime it was hijacked. Constantine and dare I say the Catholic Church. I feel like praying that God would have the lights of the world to come out from  under the bushel and be as the city upon a hill that cannot be hid.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2007, 10:41:55 AM »

Hi sonophone,

I can certainly appreciate your indignation, frustration and being sick of how our Lord and the Father are portrayed by the churches and how the leadership attempts (and often succeeds) in getting their hands deep into their flock's pockets, but this is His plan and it started even while the Apostles were still living!


PAUL SAW THE HANDWRITING ON THE WALL

Only a few years into Paul’s ministry, he told the Corinthian Congregation of the corruption already in the Church:

"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ" (II Cor. 2:17).

Now I hope you all know that I love the King James, and it is true as stated in this verse that they "corrupted" the word of God, but this verse tells us much more than the King James translators present in this verse. Let’s read a few other translations of this same verse:

"For we are not, as THE MANY, driving a PETTY TRADE with the word of God…" (A New Translation, By J. B. Rotherham).

"For we are not as the MAJORITY, who are PEDDLING the word of God…" (Concordant Literal New Testament).

"For I seek not PROFIT [LIKE MOST] by setting the word of God TO SALE…" (The Epistles of Paul, By Conybeare).

"Unlike MANY PEOPLE, we are not in the habit of MAKING PROFIT out of God’s Message" (The Twentieth Century New Testament).

"For I am no PEDDLER of God’s message LIKE MOST MEN" (An American Translation, By Goodspeed).

"For I am not like MOST, TRAFFICKING in the word of God" ( The New Testament in Modern English, By Montgomery).

"For we are not like THE GREAT NUMBER who make use of the Word of God for PROFIT" (The New Testament in Basic English).

"For we do not, like SO MANY, PEDDLE [for profit] an adulterated message of God" (The Berkeley Version of the New Testament, By Gerrit Verkuyl).

ADULTERATING HUCKSTERS OF GOD’S WORD

Does anyone have any doubts now, as to what this verse is saying? I hope not. But there is still more in this verse that does not meet the eye of understanding unless we check the Greek. The word from which "corrupt," "profit," "peddling," and "trafficking" was taken, is the Greek word kapeleou, and it means much more than simply selling for a profit: Strong’s Greek Dictionary of The New Testament: #2585. kpeleuo (a huckster); to retail, i.e. (by impl.) to adulterate. This word means to be a retailer, to peddle, to hucksterize; hence, intentionally to get base gain by dealing in anything, to do anything for sordid personal advantage." (P. 128). WOW! But wait … here’s one more definition:

From Greek-English Keyword Concordance, "peddle [kapeleu’o], sell at retail, with the insinuation of improper profit, either by overcharging or adulterating"(P. 220).

Can you even begin to understand and believe what you are reading? Paul said that it was the MAJORITY that were retailing, selling, peddling, huckstering, an adulterated version of God’s word by overcharging improper profits far beyond rational living expenses for their own base gain and sordid personal advantage! Not only was this practice CORRUPT, but, it was being done by "THE MANY," "THE MAJORITY!" Tell me that you can’t see this being done in the church today?

THE CHURCH AFTER PAUL’S DEPARTURE

While in Miletus, before going to Caesarea and then up to Jerusalem, Paul gave us a profound prophetic statement regarding the direction the church would take immediately after his departure:

"For I have not shunned to declare unto you ALL THE COUNSEL OF GOD. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to ALL THE FLOCK [the entire Church of God, and remember that ALL of Paul’s epistles were read and distributed by Peter as well to the Jewish saints, II Pet. 3:16-17], over the which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers, to feed THE CHURCH OF GOD, which He has purchased with His own blood. FOR I KNOW THIS, that after my departing shall GRIEVOUS WOLVES enter in among you, NOT SPARING THE FLOCK. Also of your OWN SELVES shall men arise, speaking PERVERSE THINGS, to DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEM. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day WITH TEARS [Paul knew and could see how horribly deceived the Church of God was to become]. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified" (Acts 20:27-32).

WOW … Not a pretty picture, is it? It gets worse.

Paul knew that just as he had to come out of religious Babylon, those under his evangelism would also have to one day come out of the New Testament Church of God’s Babylonian practices. In our next installment we will see just what these practices and doctrines of the Seven Churches are, that we must "Come out of…"

Peter witnessed and prophesied of the same conditions in the Church. Listen to Peter’s powerful words of admonition in his last epistle for us:

"But there were false prophets [teachers] also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers AMONG YOU, who privately shall bring in DAMNABLE HERESIES, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And MANY shall follow their pernicious [lascivious, licentious, wanton] ways; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be EVIL spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words MAKE MERCHANDISE OF YOU…" (II Pet. 2:1-3).

Paul again parrots Peter’s warning in his last words to Timothy in the very last epistle he wrote for us:

"But evil men and seducers [in the church] shall wax WORSE AND WORSE, DECEIVING, AND BEING DECEIVED" (II Tim. 3:13).

So Paul didn’t say that the horrible things already in the Church would get better and better, did he? No, he said they would get "worse AND WORSE!" Corrupt spiritual leaders produce even MORE corrupt leaders as well as followers. Didn’t our Lord Prophecy of this very thing:

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte [convert], and when he is made, ye make him twofold MORE the child of hell [Gk: ‘Geenna’ the realm of the ‘dead,’ which Jesus here uses to represent the ‘spiritually dead’] than yourselves" (Matt. 23:15).

We shall now see that Jesus, Peter, and Paul certainly did tell the truth that things in the church would get WORSE AND MORE WORSE, or as some translations have it, "from bad to worse." Peter says there would be false teachers that would bring in DAMNABLE HERESIES. ARE THERE DAMNABLE HERESIES IN THE CHURCH OF GOD? Or did Peter LIE? Paul tells us that evil men and seducers (Gk: wicked men and swindlers) would go from BAD TO WORSE! Did Paul LIE? Notice how bad Jesus Christ said things would become:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, [a prophet is also a teacher and prophesying is teaching], and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive THE VERY ELECT" (Matt. 24:24).

Read it all here;

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe



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sonofone

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2007, 12:24:21 PM »

Joe why do I feel like I should fight back? Not literally of course, but I feel compelled to act or to move.
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iris

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 12:32:44 PM »

Joe,

Good Post!
Thanks for sharing.


Peace and Love
Iris
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2007, 12:42:36 PM »

Hi sonophone,

It is very normal to have that feeling, I believe once we get a deeper and clearer knowledge of God and His glorious plan for His creation we really begin to despise the teachings of the church in regard to hell or annihilation, tithing and all the other things that have no Scriptural authority.

We must remember (and it can be very difficult) that this "strong delusion" is also part of God's plan and it may very well be that this is one of the ways the Lord develops patience and longsuffering in His chosen people. We must wait on Him to open hearts, eyes and ears.

The Lord may very well use us at some point as the vessel which proclaims by word and deed what His Truth about His plan and purpose for mankind really is, remember Peter admonishes;


1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

This verse gets quoted often here but it really is central to how we should conduct ourselves patiently waiting for the Lord to do the leading and for us to do the helping when the opportunity presents itself.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
 
 
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2007, 12:43:24 PM »

Thank you Iris!

His Peace to you Sister,

Joe
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sonofone

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2007, 02:27:25 PM »

Joe I may very well indeed be misguided in my feelings or beliefs. I just really fail to see it any other way. Jesus was angry as he turned over tables in the synagogue, He said with compassion that the harvest is plenteous but the laborers are few. I feel a sense to do something. Right now it's to pray but I suspect that a call to action of some sort is on the horizon.
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DuluthGA

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2007, 03:48:50 PM »

Hi Sonofone,

There HAS to be a Babylon to COME OUT of; there simply can be no other way.

This verse Christ spoke sheds more light on the contrasts of this age:

Mat 24: 6   "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

Christ said there will HAVE to be wars going on... and somebody's gotta be out there fighting them... but some HAVE BEEN GIVEN the revelation to COME OUT of this way of thinking, more onto the path of the narrow gate, getting ready to leave the flesh and the ways of this world and GLADLY become SPIRIT BEINGS!  YAY!


May His peace be with you,
Janice
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2007, 05:32:14 PM »

Hello Sonofone

I believe I can relate to what you are feeling. 

You say of Jesus : He said with compassion that the harvest is plenteous but the laborers are few.

The reality is that we get appointed by Christ first. We take our lead from Christ. 

Eph 4:11 And HE gave some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers 12 For the perfecting of the SAINTS... ( Not the deaf and the blind heretics and blasphemers. :D)

There was a brilliant graduate from Harvard University. He left the University with distinction. He stepped into the Corporate world and picked the most affluent and successful top 100 Company to go and work for. He visited the Firm and saw how much was wrong and the next day he returned and began to yell and scream as he turned over some tables.

He was arrested. Later it was found out that the young man had not even applied for the job or received any interview for any position in the Firm. He was escorted to the mad house where he spent the rest of his days.

Everything he had learnt amounted to solitary confinement. We get into solitary confinement with Christ when He says so and I believe that is perhaps what you are burning to receive.

We know there are heretical teaches out there and their motives are rotten. It is not them we have to fight but our own beast within.

Gal 5: 24 Among those who belong to Christ, everything connected with getting our own way and mindlessly responding to what everyone else calls necessities is killed off for good - crucified.  Since this is the kind of life we have....the life of the Spirit, let us make sure that we don not just hold it as an idea in our heads or a sentiment in our hearts, but work out its implications IN EVERY DETAIL OF OUR LIVES.  That means we will not compare ourselves with each other as if one of us were better and another worse. We have far more interesting things to do with our lives. Each of us is an original. The Message Translation. I have purposefully omitted the word "chosen" that appears in the blank space in the translation from The Message simply because for me, it is not reflective of God being Sovereign as we all know 8) ;D

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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indianabob

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2007, 05:44:41 PM »

Joe I may very well indeed be misguided in my feelings or beliefs. I just really fail to see it any other way. Jesus was angry as he turned over tables in the synagogue, He said with compassion that the harvest is plenteous but the laborers are few. I feel a sense to do something. Right now it's to pray but I suspect that a call to action of some sort is on the horizon.

Steven,

Your feelings are understandable and likely based on a right desire to serve God with energy, but folks have tried to humanly solve the churches problems for centuries and have always let their human understanding guide their actions and probably done more harm than good. 

Jesus is the only one with the maturity and understanding and REAL power to accomplish the will of God.  We who  are really babes in training, need to focus on developing a right relationship with the Christ and in learning sacrificial love for even the worst of us, so that when Jesus returns to claim his throne and to build a better world, that we will be ready.

Even then it will take a miracle to complete our change to true children of God, so we should I believe work to learn patience and practice long-suffering love toward those who ignorantly resist God's loving correction.  That is enough to accomplish in this phase of God's work.

indianabob
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Craig

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2007, 05:51:47 PM »

Quote
We know there are heretical teaches out there and their motives are rotten. It is not them we have to fight but our own beast within.

Amen Deb!  Well stated, if we were more concerned with that fight than all the others we get embroiled in, in this life, we would be much better off.

Craig
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sonofone

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2007, 06:21:31 PM »

An amazing unexplainable phenomenon is going on in my life right now. Perhaps it can all be summed up to maturity,I am not sure. I feel an amazing love and connection to both the members of this forum and the church. This  despite the fact that I have fundamental theological differences with both. In times past or ordinarily I would have separated myself from both of you. Yet now my desire to separate myself is replaced with a desire to stay connected. When I say that I love you guys I sincerely mean it.I do however realize as I am sure most of you have come to realize that I am not exactly one with you in my understanding or acceptance of the whatever will be will be teaching. For a fact I have found that I have more in common with you than I do the church world,despite this fact I feel a strong connection to it none the less. Given this to be true I can not know for sure whether I am on the fence so to speak. In my heart I am not divided, I know what I believe. I do not possess at this time all of the head knowledge I would like to possess. As you have seen by my post many unresolved questions are yet in my mind. I could easily see myself being one of those newbies who come here for a short space, make some post then disappear. That is not my intention,or desire to do so. I don't even know why I am pouring myself out to you guys like this. I have no theological debate with you. I seek more to be understood and enlightened ,than to change your position. I am awakened due in large part to Ray and all of you here at this forum. Pray for me as God continues to work whatever he is stirring up in me. Thanks
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dawnnnny

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2007, 07:18:57 PM »

Great responses everyone.  I'm continually blessed by so much wisdom here.  I understand sonofone how you're feeling also.  Its hard to go from one set of beliefs to another - I think we want to find a middle ground, a compromise, etc.

The more I read on this "beast within", the more I see that it is truly our worst enemy.  I've seen some posts on not being involved in politics and I think to myself "what? shouldn't we be responsible citizens?!!!" so I still have a lot to learn.  My beast is still pretty vicious compared to some in this forum  :)    but I'm thankful, as time goes by, that God is showing me that I am truly my own worst enemy - that old nature that wants to run things.

Great post, great responses everyone, and try to continue in patience sonofone  :)

Much Love & Appreciation,
Dawn
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HopeImChosen

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2007, 09:20:43 PM »

I have to admit that I also watch televangelists and popular "bishops" preach on TV to keep reminding me of what error sounds like, and keep my mind sharp by reviewing scriptures in my mind that contradict their heretical teachings. Recently I've been commenting on Youtube clips that present "hell" teachings, and a few people who claim to have visited "hell." I tell you, the anger that arises sometimes can be devouring. To quote scripture that affirms the salvation of all, while naysayers shoot it down with their carnal reasoning and foolish tradition can indeed cause great ire. It reminds me of the Psalm that the disciples recalled when Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the temple..."The zeal of thine house has eaten me up(Devoured me)." John 2:17.

Sometimes I have to catch myself and realize that most people are blind, and only few are chosen to see God's truths now. I have to admit that I've cut off a few ears in the process of defending the Lord(Just like Peter), and I need to really pray about this. I guess I'm riding a fine line of using the sarcasm that Jesus used with the pharisees, and being downright overbearing and vindictive.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 09:26:05 PM by HopeImChosen »
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javajoe

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2007, 10:32:48 PM »

woops!  forgot to write anything!  :)

Anway, I was going to say the "judgement begins with the house of God", so I guess we need not worry about the T.V. preachers, because when the time comes, God will judge them.  I don't even worry about who is president anymore!  Go ahead, bring on Hillary!  Anyone of them will be all part of a great plan, and they don't even know it!!  ;D
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insanezenmistress

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Re: Righteous Indignation!!
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2007, 10:49:08 PM »

I will second that prayer, Sono fone, (thats how i read your name anyway)  If you FEEL like it , you already are, on some deeper level. You should not be afraid to have feelings...be afraid to mis use them.  Read Jeremiah.  here are some verses.


2:13  For my people have commited two evils They have forsaken ME, The fountian of living waters, To hew themselves cisterns, broken cisterns That can hold no water.

2:19  Your own wickedness will correct you, And your apostisies will reproove you; Know therefore and see that it is evil and Bitter, For you to forsake the Lord God of Hosts.

7:8-11 Behold. you are trusting in deceptive words to no avail. Will you steal, murder, and commit adultary, and swear falsely, and offer sacrifices to Baal, and walk after  other gods that  you have NOT KNOWN!
         And THEN come and stand before Me in THIS house, which is calle dby my name, and say.... 'we are delivered' that you may do all thess abominations?
         Has this house, which is calle dby My Name, become a den of robbers in your sight?
         Behold, I , even I , have seen it, declares the Lord.

7:21-24 Thus says the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel. "Add to your burnt offerings, to your sarcrificesand, eat fleash! For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

           But THIS IS WHAT I commanded them, saying .

           OBEY MY VOICE.... and I will be your God and you shall bemy people; and you will walk in all the way which I command you to walk.

           YET, they would not obey or incline their ear, but walked after their own counsel ( theology) and in teh stubborness of their evil heart and went backward an dnot forward.

7:5b,6a Turned away in continaul apostacy, they hold fast to deciet, they refuse to return.  I have listened, I have heard,

            They have not spoken the truth.


ALot could be said to bring out the seriousness of Our lord's desire that we HEAR HIS VOICE.....through out scripture the Lord stresses his desire that we live within himself, and should hear and incline our ear to his voice. We should be well trained in the knowledge of God, personally, or what we have is a paper baised theological rendering of what we think god is like and what rules he might have for us to understand him.

   That was a side bar, Sonofone, to segway into this, HIs spirit and voice in within you and clearly, your sentiments echo Our Lord's take on the matter you have expressed. Biblically speaking Judgement is imminant.therefore your prayer would likely be in accordance with what must be........erm..his desire.

    well i guess thats all for now.

    Be blessed
    IZM
      

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