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[DuluthGA]

Hi Gregor, 

Good point.

Well, I think I’ve got the free will concept down.  From my own recent post in a different thread…”Yes, God's in control, has prearranged and now directs our steps…but we steer the ship.  God's will is worked THROUGH our actions or inactions and not in spite of them.”  So G, I agree there IS a partnership/relationship, only my focus in John 15: 5 is:

John 5: 15b   "... apart from me you can do nothing." [CLNT]

Maybe it would have been better if I used the word ‘grace’ instead of ‘favor’ to give the idea that I have done nothing to deserve the gift of His grace and indwelling spirit.  But then to continue to build and grow in that grace… ahhhh that’s where I did have to ponder a bit…..  then I remembered this: 

2Pet 3:18   Yet be growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be glory now, as well as for the day of the eon. Amen!  [CLNT]

So voila… there’s that relationship again!

Thank you G for your insight that has helped me refine mine. 

Janice 

[Gregor]

Greetings Janice,

You said, "So G, I agree there IS a partnership/relationship, only my focus in John 15: 5 is: John 5:15b   "... apart from me you can do nothing." Hopefully you can now change the is to was? Just like Peter walking on water, we must keep our focus on Jesus. I agree with you whole-heartedly that it is the GRACE of God that we live and breath and have our being. Awesome God!!

NKJV
Prov.27:10, "As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."

Ecc.10:10 " If the ax is dull, and one does not sharpen the edge, then he must use more strength; but wisdom brings success."

Thanks to you and all here at the forum, I'm continually learning and growing too. All the best,
G.

[javajoe]

I hate to chime in here in the middle of this discourse,Nonetheless here I go.Why fear or tremble over what you cannot control? If you play no part in Gods plan, why do anything?Fear,trembling worrying,pondering does nothing if God has not made you elect,or chosen.I have to side with Gregor here we are accountable.By and through the spirit we can make choices to follow God,and work out our soul salvation with fear and trembling,by consciously making the choice to remain in Christ IE following or walking after the spirit.

Well said Sonofone - couldn't agree more!

Believing in the sovereignty of God does not mean we should be passive, but it should make us all the more eager to be a participator in God's plan, but remembering it is God in us who is  "to do and will according to His good purpose".  What we do is all a part of God's plan, and we do need to make a choice to participate in that plan everyday!  And I guarantee, we do.  We pray, we study scripture, we are kind to our neighbor, we get up off our butts to provide for our family - all by choices we make - not according to free will, but by what the Spirit of God and our own conscience fine-tuned by the renewing of our minds compels us to do.

ciao,

JavaJoe 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello again

You note sonofone : Fear,trembling worrying,pondering does nothing if God has not made you elect,or chosen.

There is a process in our being made into the image of Christ wherein we are cautioned through Paul that :

1 Cor 3:10 According to the grace ( GRACE! Janice. You caught on to this for us  ) of God bestowed on me, like a skillful architect and master builder I laid the foundation, and now another is building upon it. But let each be careful how he builds ( here, for me, as I observe, is the caution from Paul to me as the second witness for the fear and trembling)   upon it 11. For no other foundation ( not our carnal beliefs, worldly opinions or leaning on our own limited comprehension or understanding ) can anyone lay than that which is already laid, WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST.  12 But if anyone builds upon the Foundation, whether it be with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw. 13. The work of each will become known for what it is, for the day of Christ will disclose and declare it,  because it will be revealed with fire, and the fir will test and critically appraise the character and worth of the work each person has done. 14 IF the work which any person has built on this Foundation SURVIVES this test, he will get his reward.

Regarding our choices we can see who is the builder who's works will stand in the following scripture. this should humble all builders

Heb 11 : 10 For he was looking forward to the city which has fixed and firm foundations, whose ARCHITECT AND BUILDER IS GOD.

That fixed and firm foundation of course is Christ. Who can add or subtract from HIM? Not one. Hence comes the reverence, love in our hearts for HIM for HE has loved US first and sheds abroad in our hearts HIS love that nourishes the fruit in us of HIS Spirit.

It is God who drag's us to Christ. It is the Spirit OF Christ that conforms us into HIS Image. You say clone G. and that is a new thought for me to ponder... For we are new creatures....not yet born but conceived.....Not yet elect but called....still being in the process of HIS work!

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[sonofone]

If any man be in Christ he is a new creature. I think we fail to recognize what it is to be born again. We have newfound power to live as God intended for us to live when we walk after the spirit which he equips us to do through the new birth.

[javajoe]

If any man be in Christ he is a new creature. I think we fail to recognize what it is to be born again. We have newfound power to live as God intended for us to live when we walk after the spirit which he equips us to do through the new birth.

Amen, Bro,

and that vs from  2 Corinth makes it clear about what has happened to the former things, the way we used to live (according to the flesh).  I guess the key is to keep that "newness" alive

Therefore if any man be in Christ,he is a new creature:old things are passed away;behold,all things are become new.
(2 Corinthians 5:17)

[Deborah-Leigh]

Ray says the following :

      No, our final destination is to be BORN into the Kingdom of God, not just an "adoption." Some bibles do not ever use the word "adoption."  Even if we were to accept these Scriptures as "adoption," we still have the added knowledge that we are to be BORN into the Kingdom of God.

         We are all "called," but is that our final destiny?  No, there is also (in addition to the called) those called ones who are CHOSEN, and even among the chosen, there must be the FAITHFUL (Rev.17:14).  Judas was called and chosen, but he was NOT FAITHFUL UNTIL THE END!!

        Hope this helps your understanding.

        God be with you,

        Ray

For more information ref : http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4452.msg34236.html#msg34236

Peace be to you

Arcturus