Circumcision - ouch!

[Gregor]

Greetings,
NKJV
Acts7:51, "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you."

Sunday night I was on my way to a home bible study group. I came across two vehicles stopped in the lane ahead. There were two men standing on the center-line directing traffic around them. At first I thought it must have been an accident, but as I drove by on the other side, I noticed that there was an old man slumped in his seat behind the wheel - no accident, but an apparent heart-attack. My initial instinct was to pull over and go lay hands on him and pray, but then the voice in my head said, "The other two guys are attending to him, they're calling 911 on their cell right now, so just keep going to the bible study." Sadly, I followed the latter line of thinking.
By the time I arrived at the meeting, I was in tears, the image of that man still burned in my mind. All I could think of was the parable of the good Samaritan found in Luke 10:33-37. A priest and a levite, both religious men, passed by on the other side - just like me. Ouch! I definately learned something about myself, in the blink of an eye. When God circumsizes my heart it hurts. But, I believe that it changed me forever. I hope that in the future, when I hear the still small voice and leading of the Spirit that I will follow. Needless to say, I prayed for that man anyways, as did our study group. But in sharing this story with them, it brought to light something that God is doing with them as well, individually and collectively. I pray that we all will take a moment to reflect on "who our neighbors are" and what our calling entails.
All the best,
G.

[javajoe]

Been there, done that, Gregor, you are not alone! God did some pruning, looks like.  Thank Him for the lesson learned, and thank you for sharing!! 

[Gregor]

Greetings,
NKJV
Luke 12:34, "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
If the "theif" steals your treasure, he steals your heart. Just another tid bit I'm learning.

[DuluthGA]

Hi G... just need to clarify...

My initial instinct was to pull over and go lay hands on him and pray,

I take it that you think that this is what you were supposed to do in this situation? 

Thanks... I will not be able to post until way later on in the day.  Take care.
Janice

[Gregor]

Hi G... just need to clarify...

My initial instinct was to pull over and go lay hands on him and pray,

I take it that you think that this is what you were supposed to do in this situation? 

Greetings Janice,

You asked a really good question. I have been considering it for a while now myself. Even answering here is bringing to light what God is doing in me. I did believe that is what I should have done. I believed I missed out on the opportunity to witness a miracle (fleshly purpose), but now, foremost and utmost, to be a witness of Jesus to those who were present at the scene, and maybe even those who would later hear (spiritual purpose). My heart really was moved with compassion for the man, but my thoughts weren't right. Perhaps I was "supposed" to do exactly what I did, so that God could bring to light the thoughts of my heart:

Hebrews 4:12 says, "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, peircing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

1Cor.15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

God is circumcising my heart, removing the "flesh-driven nature" that is still in me. I witnessed a very powerful manifestation of the gift of healing once before, and yet still missed the point. I think this time by missing what I thought was my opportunity to be obedient to the leading of the spirit, God took the opportunity to make his point! (pun intended)

I also believe Rom.8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." One thing's for sure, I'm a definite work in progress. Thank you for asking the question. It really confirmed what God was trying to tell me. (My wife also asked me the same thing earlier and I missed the point then too.) I think I'm finally getting it.
Your Brother in Christ,
Greg

[LittleBear]

I've never personally seen anyone healed by prayer before. I don't know if I actually believe in healings for today; I guess people do have testimonies though. I've seen some healing "shows", but no actual healings. If I was in your situation Greg, I personally wouldn't even consider stopping in order to lay hands on the man and pray for healing. I don't mean to sound hard-hearted, but I wouldn't even know if that's what God wanted for him. The whole laying-on of hands also confuses me, and it's always felt eerie to me (from years ago).

Maybe others here have some insight.

Ursula

[Kat]

Hi Ursula,

You bring up a good point.  Paul says we should not lay again dead works as is taught in the church, but move on to perfection/maturity.  The physical rituals are types and shadows, we should be concerned with the spiritual.


Heb 6:1  Wherefore let us cease to speak of the first principles of Christ, and press on unto perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2  of the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3  And this will we do, if God permit.

Here is an email on this.

http://bible-truths.com/email15.htm#shadows ---------------------------------

Paul baptized in the beginning of his ministry. Late he said, "The Lord has not called me to baptize."  All the institutionalized churches of men know is the physical. Some have even said that, "The physical IS THE SPIRITUAL." What rank nonsense. All physical rituals (baptism is a physical ritual) are types and shadows of spiritual realities. When we have the reality, why should we still look to the type or shadow?  Would you sooner have the "shadow" that a new house casts on the grown, the the "new house" that casts the shadow?

Jesus Christ is the spiritual reality of ALL TYPES AND SHADOWS.  "Jesus Christ is the END of the law."

God be with you,

Ray

[Gregor]

Greetings,

I don't believe in any "special formula" ie. water baptism, actual laying on of hands,etc. I believe soley in the power of the spirit. Nothing I can do apart from the spirit will amount to anything. And the true motive is always love for one another, and love for God!

Here is a small sample of my witness of the power of God, that Jesus still touches(re: types) lives today:

One Tues. night I went to a home bible study group, rather than an 'organized' traditional church. What happened that night made me really believe God still heals today. There was a lady there who couldn't even shake my hand because her hands were completely covered in eczema (A noncontagious inflammation of the skin, characterized chiefly by redness, itching, and the outbreak of lesions that may discharge serous matter and become encrusted and scaly). Both hands and arms were covered in open sores with puss, swelling, scabs etc.  I was suddenly overcome with compassion for her. Weeping I went to her and put my hands on her and began basically crying to God saying, "if this is your child, how can you let her suffer like this?" Others joined in. Right then and there, in front of approximately 24 people, this lady began to shout "oh my god, somethings happening" and I watched as the puss receeded, the sores closed and her skin healed all over. I saw it with my own eyes. Others saw it. She couldn't even hardly believe it. I felt a presence in the room, and inside me, that I can only explain as being the Spirit of God. It was as if my body was on fire, but not in pain. Sweat poured off my body and I felt a rush of peace and love that I've never experienced before. I believe that I could actually hear angels singing. It was a miracle.

I believe in the power of prayer to move the hand of God. I believe that God does still touch lives and heal today. I believe that wont be the only miracle I will see in life, so long as I continue to seek God and obey his leading.
G.

[sonofone]

you guys still do believe in the power of prayer and miracles right? These are not dead works?

[javajoe]

you guys still do believe in the power of prayer and miracles right? These are not dead works?

I sure do!! 

[Kat]

Hi sonofone,

The way I see it is there are works that Christ does through us, these are the good works of the Spirit.  And there are the ritual/works that the churches say is necessary, like baptism, tithes, laying on of hands, keeping the Sabbath/Lord's day and such.  This I think is like the burdens the Pharisees layed on men's shoulders.

Mat 23:4  For they bind heavy and hard-to-carry burdens and lay them on men's shoulders. But they will not move them with one of their fingers.  

I most certainly believe in prayer and miracles  

Here is an email that helps explain this.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,492.0.html

Dear Kevin:
Your struggles is no different from many other saints that have gone before you. Here is the simple truth about whether it is all a done deal in our lives, or whether there is something for us to do as Believers in Christ:

"For by GRACE are ye saved [that's a true statement] through FAITH [that's also a true statement]; and that [that 'faith'] not of yourselves: it is the GIFT [and that too is a true statement--a gift can't be 'earned'] of God. NOT OF WORKS [that certainly is also a true statement] lest any man should boast.  For we are HIS workmanship [the Greek is 'His achievement'--and that again is certainly true, we can't make ourselves spirituall converted and mature], created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS, Which God has before ordained that we SHOULD WALK IN THEM [now where did that come from?  Are we now to assume that that statement is NOT TRUE?  That there are NO WORKS involved in our salvation, when God ordained that we MUST WALK IN GOOD WORKS?]" (Eph. 2:8-10).

God gives us FAITH, and God grants us GRACE, and with that He works out His achievement in us by causing us to DO GOOD WORKS, and don't let any two-faced lying hypocritical false prophet ever tell you differently.

Our "good works" will not save us, but God will save no one in whom He does not ORDAIN GOOD WORKS that they must walk in.

Now then, take heart. As you read the Truths of God, OBEY all that God is showing you. God will lead you to true spiritual repentance, as that too is something that only God can grant to you (See Rom. 2:4).  When you begin to live a life without all the sins of your past, you will have a clean and clear conscience for the first time in your entire life. With a clean and clear conscience comes PEACE OF MIND.  If God is causing you to seek Him, then God will grant you repentance, and sin will no longer have "dominion over you" (Rom. 6:14).

You and your future are in God's hands.  If what I teach is from the Scriptures, then believe it and follow it; and if not, then ask God to show you where the Truth is. If you find someone else who teaches the truth contrary to what I teach, please get back with me and let me know where you found it.
God be with you, and we will be praying for you,

Ray

[javajoe]

I've never personally seen anyone healed by prayer before. I don't know if I actually believe in healings for today; I guess people do have testimonies though. I've seen some healing "shows", but no actual healings. If I was in your situation Greg, I personally wouldn't even consider stopping in order to lay hands on the man and pray for healing. I don't mean to sound hard-hearted, but I wouldn't even know if that's what God wanted for him. The whole laying-on of hands also confuses me, and it's always felt eerie to me (from years ago).

Maybe others here have some insight.

Ursula

Well I've been healed by prayer before and by the laying on of hands.  Timothy was imparted a spiritual gift by the "laying on of hands" (1 Timothy 4: 14).  I see no Scriptural evidence that God doesn't heal today, but it entirely depends upon His Will, because some people don' get healed.  I think we just need to do the right thing, what we know is right and what we fell lead to do, the results are entirely in God's hands.

[Scribbles]

It's chrisiandom that is looking for "revivals", signs and wonders.....when He tells us not to be ( Matt. 24:24, 2Th.2:9)....of course that's a whole other study, etc. but with also in keeping the thought of what Greg brought up, I believe we're to pray "silently" or at least out of the public view, etc.( Mat.6:5 ). "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say to you, they have their reward". Bless God for showing you such a 'pruning'....in yet a gentle way. When we are in the vicinity of an accident or such, a simple heartfelt prayer for the people involved, and their family....and to be thankful God's will to be done, is what He desires to hear from us. When the Spirit of God brings us to tears praying for a stranger.....that may be Him showing us that we are doing what we're supposed to be doing, and we can be assured Gods will was being done for that person. Greg....you certainly did the right thing.....and, as Kay brought up the scripture in Heb 6:1-3.....and God certainly made His point... 

Another thought...sometimes those "initial instincts" are flat out from christiandom teachings. I'm another one that can say "been there, done it"....lol.....May we all be sensitive to hear Him, and Him only. We're all learning...step by step.

There's been several postings since I started typing this out, because I gave reference of Matt.24:24 and 2Th.2:9, and I hope to make myself clear...I too believe in the power of prayer and miracles. There's a balance to everything, and that will include discerning those kinds of 'signs and wonders' He warns us against, to those that may be given to His own, as JavaJoe pointed out 1Tim.4:14.
~ Scribbles~

[Sue Creamer]

Hi All,

This is a good thread..one thought this morning and I am afraid I must ask Kat this question.  I remember Ray saying somewhere in his emails or writings that Satan can and does cause illnesses and that he also
has the power to remove them.  I do believe that God heals...I do believe God does miracles but seems
that not all healing and not all miracles are of God.   Thoughts??
peace,
Sue Ann

[Kat]

Hi Sue Ann,

I think this is the email you were talking about.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2862.0.html --------------------

   Who makes people sick God or satan?  Preachers say God is all powerful but then give satan all the credit when something bad happens.
     

    Dear Reader:
    I can give you the simple answer, but few there be who [1] believe it or [2] understand it.
    "ALL is of God," but God never lies, never temps people, and never causes people to sin.
    Men lie, and men are tempted by their own lusts, and men sin VOLUNTARYILY from their heart.
     
    Yes, Satan causes disease, Luke 13:16, but only becuase it is in God's plan and purpose that there
    be disease in the first place.

    God be with you,
    Ray

[Sue Creamer]

Kat,

Yes, I believe that was it...!  It does not matter if Satan does inflict diseases, or even that he can remove them, all is God's will...I understand completely.   Thanks Kat.

peace,
Sue Ann

[Bradigans]

I wouldn't feel bad. It is God through His chastening {Hebrews 12:6, John 15:1-5, Philippians 2:13} that has to work His will in and through you. If you in Christ, don't let the enemy fool you by putting you in guilt. If you're in Christ and THE HOLY SPIRIT {1 Corinthians 12:13} wants you to do something, you will do it. Believe me...

[DuluthGA]

Thanks G and thanks a lot Kat for great Ray links!

Really appreciated your post Scribbles.