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Author Topic: Contradiction  (Read 4711 times)

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« on: September 25, 2007, 06:12:36 PM »

    L. Ray Smith,
    You say in your newest article, “God forces no one to do His will”. I find this contradicts Scripture as well as your own writings.
    You write in the Myth of Free Will (part A):
    “The disciples all said that they would remain loyal. But Jesus said that they would all be offended because of Him. Was there a reason for God causing the disciples to will loyalty to Jesus and then in the same night to will to deny Jesus? Does God do anything in vain without a reason? This was all part of their conversion process. God totally humiliated them by proving to them that their own will was not free to do what they wanted, but that
    "…it is God [not man] which works in you BOTH TO WILL [God causes us ‘to will’] and TO DO [God causes us ‘to do’] of His good pleasure" to bring about His intentions (Phil. 2:13).”
    Here is another good example:
    “Now we are aware that God is working all together for the good of those who are loving God, who are called according to the purpose’ that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren.’ Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also.’” (Romans 8:29-30)
    God is clearly in charge of every step of someone coming to Christ, enduring with Christ, and overcoming with Christ. Even if a man were to deny God after his calling, that would not be out of God’s Will.
    “Former of light and Creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil. I, Yahweh Elohim, made all of these things.” (Isaiah 45:7)
    I was looking up the definition of "force" and it has a quality of trying to influence someone or some thing to do something, not always with the results hoped for.  So if you're using it in this sense, then perhaps this statement makes more sense (with more clarifying), seeing that God doesn't need to "force" us to do anything.  However, if you're using it in the sense of "we're not robots", then I feel there is error.  If I am wrong in my reading of the Scriptures, I hope God will have me come to see my error.

    Dear Nicholas:  I am afraid you have done what hundreds before you have done, and that is to mis-quote my statements or take something out of context.  You suggest that what I said and meant in the quotation above attributed to me is that God does not "force" anyone to do His will. You then define "force" as any "a quality of trying to influence."   That is not the main definition of "force" with regards to persuading others that my dictionaries present.  Here is how force is used in respect to trying to cause others to do what we want:  "force, the use of physical power OR VIOLENCE to COMPEL or restrain."
    That's a far cry from your definition of "a quality of trying to influence." From what dictionary did you find that definition? I don't think that my American Heritage College Dictionary could be that far off!  Here's Webster's:  "to achieve or win by strength in struggle or VIOLENCE." I believe my use of the word "force" is accurate, regardless of what some alternate definition of this word might suggest.
    Notice carefully what I said that you did NOT quote:
    "Some erroneously believe that if God were Sovereign and man had no free will, then God would force us to live righteously and godly; He would force us to love Him; He would FORCE US AGAINST OUR WILL to do His will; and such utter nonsense. God forces no one to do His will. Which of the apostles was forced to do the will of God against his will? The unscriptural arguments against the Sovereignty are but smoke and mirrors of the theologians.'
    Notice: "He would FORCE US AGAINST OUR WILL to do His will."  Why did you not include that most revealing statement of mine found in the very same paragraph?  I believe that God "inspires" me to write the things that I do for I do NOT, however, believe that God "FORCES ME AGAINST MY WILL" to write the things that I do. Sorry if you cannot see this distinction.
    My statements are clear and Scriptural. Hope this helps your understanding.
    God be with you,
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